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Post by DigDug on Mar 18, 2015 21:06:43 GMT -6
Everyone...hellooooo, reality check...they've already proven they can't manage to get jeans to people when they already have the fabric to make them on-hand in-house. You'd have to be a complete maroon to buy in on this That may be true, But, I think many are banking on the idea that the LA factory will be up and running soon. |
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Post by Winterland on Mar 18, 2015 21:44:21 GMT -6
Everyone...hellooooo, reality check...they've already proven they can't manage to get jeans to people when they already have the fabric to make them on-hand in-house. You'd have to be a complete maroon to buy in on this You are wrong as they have gotten their jeans to many. Shirts, jackets and vests also. We all know they are behind schedule. Calling people maroons? isn't necessary to get the worn out conjecture across. If you don't want to order from them don't. If others want to that is their choice but they shouldn't be chastised for it. For all you and everyone else here knows they could end up with some unique and very cool thick denim for a bargain price. We all know and can imagine the other theories of what could happen. I personally try to remain positive and factual about the companies I discuss. If I have an issue with a company I call them and spend my energy getting a solution to the problem. If I can't get satisfaction, which is rare, I won't purchase from them again. Yes I might share my experience to others but I keep it factual and keep the theories and speculation to talking about the new Star Wars. There is enough negativity in the world. I go on forums for enjoyment, to learn and share knowledge. Let's try to have more fun here.  |
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Post by julian on Mar 19, 2015 3:01:33 GMT -6
There is enough negativity in the world. I go on forums for enjoyment, to learn and share knowledge. Let's try to have more fun here. This forum is one of the most fun I've been involved with. The positivity on 99.5% of the threads is infectious (as people's bank accounts will testify) and really enjoyable, as well as knowledgeable, to read. There is really only one thread of doom here - and that ain't the fault of the members. |
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Post by variable on Mar 19, 2015 4:53:46 GMT -6
There is enough negativity in the world. I go on forums for enjoyment, to learn and share knowledge. Let's try to have more fun here. This forum is one of the most fun I've been involved with. The positivity on 99.5% of the threads is infectious (as people's bank accounts will testify) and really enjoyable, as well as knowledgeable, to read. There is really only one thread of doom here - and that ain't the fault of the members. I love all you guys, but man you've been hell on my bank account.  |
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Post by drstrange on Mar 19, 2015 6:24:49 GMT -6
Everyone...hellooooo, reality check...they've already proven they can't manage to get jeans to people when they already have the fabric to make them on-hand in-house. You'd have to be a complete maroon to buy in on this from the contributions I've seen, all those who have given LD another credit line (or a donation to the "Indigo Rebel Motorcycle Club", we shall see ...) seem to know exactly what they are doing and are well aware of the risks involved btw, technically this would be called "gambling", not sure being legal in all states ....  anyway, I think if people make their decisions informed, it's not up to me or anyone else to question their motivation ... |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2015 2:29:29 GMT -6
Fair enough. I made it pretty clear that it was speculation and that I hope it doesn't turn out to be true. I'll be happy if Lawless proves themselves. They can do so easily but catching up on their order backlog. At which point I will post a congratulations, apology for doubting them, and place an order. But I think I'll order one of the jeans made out of slightly less experimental denim.  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2015 10:45:08 GMT -6
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Post by drstrange on Mar 20, 2015 13:01:24 GMT -6
I'm not contradicting mountainman3520, as I posted very similar thoughts her before
however let me put some thoughts which may be "in favor" of LD:
If Mr. JR Acevedo ever had the intention to grab the money and run, he perhaps would have set up the con differently. Let's face it, if the 24oz (maybe more maybe less) would have appeared in say late November last year, a little bit orchestrated with Sal's enthousiasm, virtually all of us may have jumped on the train ....
also some of the stuff seems to be produced, at snail speed, but still, so there has been some investment into machinery and I guess people ...
In essence I do not believe, the money is being taken with the intention to fraud anyone, but actually in order to produce some garment for it ...
It's beyond dispute, that LD is not run according to any traditional best practice handbook, neither were microsoft, apple, google or facebook in their humble beginnings .... I'm curious how this turns out ....
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Post by wdw on Mar 20, 2015 13:05:26 GMT -6
I don't believe for a second it's a con. But I'm convinced LD is well and truly out of its depth in terms of business management and customer satisfaction. I'd like to think that if he could turn back the clock he wouldn't have had that crazy November sale, and the subsequent ones. He should have concentrated on satisfying his KS backers and learned to walk before he could run.
But now it's out of control, I think he's just fiddling when Rome burns. Time will tell.
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Post by seth on Mar 20, 2015 13:10:55 GMT -6
I don't believe for a second it's a con. But I'm convinced LD is well and truly out of its depth in terms of business management and customer satisfaction. I'd like to think that if he could turn back the clock he wouldn't have had that crazy November sale, and the subsequent ones. He should have concentrated on satisfying his KS backers and learned to walk before he could run. But now it's out of control, I think he's just fiddling when Rome burns. Time will tell. I believe you are correct. They are out of their depth and failing to fix fundamental business problems before taking on difficult new initiatives. |
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Post by oatwilly on Mar 22, 2015 16:41:46 GMT -6
Shouldn't we more concerned with the fact that in a relatively short time, they went from issuing quick timely refunds on cancellations, to stalling on them, to saying they do them once a week, to then stalling those, to now saying refunds only happen once monthly.
To me that spells disaster. It means chances are (very) good they are also having trouble paying for everything else. In other words, it's almost over Johnny.
Why isn't this a bigger deal? Help me understand why we are even discussing other things like 23 and 24 oz denims, suprima cotton, who's running their new looms, etc. etc. ?
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Post by doctorcowboy on Mar 22, 2015 17:26:05 GMT -6
Shouldn't we more concerned with the fact that in a relatively short time, they went from issuing quick timely refunds on cancellations, to stalling on them, to saying they do them once a week, to then stalling those, to now saying refunds only happen once monthly. To me that spells disaster. It means chances are (very) good they are also having trouble paying for everything else. In other words, it's almost over Johnny. Why isn't this a bigger deal? Help me understand why we are even discussing other things like 23 and 24 oz denims, suprima cotton, who's running their new looms, etc. etc. ? Not to defend their practices or horrible lack of communication, but I think that this is overblown. Roman said in the other thread that they're having issues easily granting refunds on orders over 120 days old, and they're working with their merchant account provider to ease restrictions on those types of refunds. Doing refunds once a month is probably giving him time to let the process clear with his merchant account. A quick Google search finds that many merchant accounts have restrictions or at least different procedures for refunds on transactions older than 120 days. Notably, check out authorize.net's restrictions. They sound just like what Roman was talking about. Is this good for the customer? No. Should LD be more communicative of these issues? Yes. Is the sky falling? I don't think so. Back on the topic of this thread: I think Roman's 60 day turn around time estimations with the new factories are way optimistic. But, I do think that keeping the new, less customized products in the new factories will mean a more streamlined process, and that the turn around will be more predictable. I may drop a little more cash on LD for their in-house spun denim, but I'll wait until my November order comes in before I make that call. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2015 17:45:24 GMT -6
Shouldn't we more concerned with the fact that in a relatively short time, they went from issuing quick timely refunds on cancellations, to stalling on them, to saying they do them once a week, to then stalling those, to now saying refunds only happen once monthly. To me that spells disaster. It means chances are (very) good they are also having trouble paying for everything else. In other words, it's almost over Johnny. Why isn't this a bigger deal? Help me understand why we are even discussing other things like 23 and 24 oz denims, suprima cotton, who's running their new looms, etc. etc. ? Because mods said we beat the horse dead beyond recognition, and would rather put lipstick on it then allow it to be beaten even more. |
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Post by scooter on Mar 22, 2015 18:06:31 GMT -6
Shouldn't we more concerned with the fact that in a relatively short time, they went from issuing quick timely refunds on cancellations, to stalling on them, to saying they do them once a week, to then stalling those, to now saying refunds only happen once monthly. To me that spells disaster. It means chances are (very) good they are also having trouble paying for everything else. In other words, it's almost over Johnny. Why isn't this a bigger deal? Help me understand why we are even discussing other things like 23 and 24 oz denims, suprima cotton, who's running their new looms, etc. etc. ? Because, much like your 1st 2 paragraphs, anything else anyone could say would merely be speculation. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2015 18:22:50 GMT -6
Shouldn't we more concerned with the fact that in a relatively short time, they went from issuing quick timely refunds on cancellations, to stalling on them, to saying they do them once a week, to then stalling those, to now saying refunds only happen once monthly. To me that spells disaster. It means chances are (very) good they are also having trouble paying for everything else. In other words, it's almost over Johnny. Why isn't this a bigger deal? Help me understand why we are even discussing other things like 23 and 24 oz denims, suprima cotton, who's running their new looms, etc. etc. ? Not to defend their practices or horrible lack of communication, but I think that this is overblown. Roman said in the other thread that they're having issues easily granting refunds on orders over 120 days old, and they're working with their merchant account provider to ease restrictions on those types of refunds. Doing refunds once a month is probably giving him time to let the process clear with his merchant account. A quick Google search finds that many merchant accounts have restrictions or at least different procedures for refunds on transactions older than 120 days. Notably, check out authorize.net's restrictions. They sound just like what Roman was talking about. Is this good for the customer? No. Should LD be more communicative of these issues? Yes. Is the sky falling? I don't think so. Back on the topic of this thread: I think Roman's 60 day turn around time estimations with the new factories are way optimistic. But, I do think that keeping the new, less customized products in the new factories will mean a more streamlined process, and that the turn around will be more predictable. I may drop a little more cash on LD for their in-house spun denim, but I'll wait until my November order comes in before I make that call. He backtracked and said refunds on transactions older than 60 days, which is like everyone's orders. |
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Post by exophobe on Mar 22, 2015 18:38:47 GMT -6
You guys remember that time when every Gustin thread was filled with the same few people airing the same complaints over and over without addressing the issue with Gustin? I do.
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Post by doctorcowboy on Mar 22, 2015 19:06:15 GMT -6
Not to defend their practices or horrible lack of communication, but I think that this is overblown. Roman said in the other thread that they're having issues easily granting refunds on orders over 120 days old, and they're working with their merchant account provider to ease restrictions on those types of refunds. Doing refunds once a month is probably giving him time to let the process clear with his merchant account. A quick Google search finds that many merchant accounts have restrictions or at least different procedures for refunds on transactions older than 120 days. Notably, check out authorize.net's restrictions. They sound just like what Roman was talking about. Is this good for the customer? No. Should LD be more communicative of these issues? Yes. Is the sky falling? I don't think so. Back on the topic of this thread: I think Roman's 60 day turn around time estimations with the new factories are way optimistic. But, I do think that keeping the new, less customized products in the new factories will mean a more streamlined process, and that the turn around will be more predictable. I may drop a little more cash on LD for their in-house spun denim, but I'll wait until my November order comes in before I make that call. He backtracked and said refunds on transactions older than 60 days, which is like everyone's orders. Good point. I checked his replies in the other thread and he did state that the 60 day limit is established by authorize.net. Their site says 120 days. So, there is a discrepancy there. He also said (and Sal's said this in the past) that there is an additional delay due to people doing charge backs shortly after requesting a refund - so LD would be refunding twice the original amount and jacking up their bank account and internal accounting. And, keep in mind, the 120 day limit IS indeed set by authorize.net, and many of the orders that folks here have announced that they've cancelled have been from November, so they are subject to the limits put in place that LD is working to eliminate. This would be corrected through better communication with customers when they request refunds. Is it indicative of LD cutting and running with money or being malicious? I don't think so. To paraphrase Winterland from an earlier reply: don't confuse incompetence with maliciousness. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2015 19:22:59 GMT -6
He backtracked and said refunds on transactions older than 60 days, which is like everyone's orders. Good point. I checked his replies in the other thread and he did state that the 60 day limit is established by authorize.net. Their site says 120 days. So, there is a discrepancy there. He also said (and Sal's said this in the past) that there is an additional delay due to people doing charge backs shortly after requesting a refund - so LD would be refunding twice the original amount and jacking up their bank account and internal accounting. And, keep in mind, the 120 day limit IS indeed set by authorize.net, and many of the orders that folks here have announced that they've cancelled have been from November, so they are subject to the limits put in place that LD is working to eliminate. This would be corrected through better communication with customers when they request refunds. Is it indicative of LD cutting and running with money or being malicious? I don't think so. To paraphrase Winterland from an earlier reply: don't confuse incompetence with maliciousness. I hope it's incompetence. I've officially tried everything I can do. Talked to Laura, Sal, Kahla, and Roman in that order. And I've talked to my credit card company, but since it was beyond 60 days, and I don't live within a 100 mile radius of the merchant, I am SoL, and my money is in LD's hands. So if it's incompetence, and they want to run a legitimate business, then I will have my refund soon. If not, then I want everyone to know. exophobe: The other guy with regards to Gustin was trying to be a beacon for potential customers that G workshirts might not fit you properly so stay away at all costs for all their products. Depending if I get my refund within the next few weeks (8 week wait will be understandable right?) I'm going to be a beacon for those who are potential customers of LD that they might not even get their money back. |
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Post by brentkuz on Mar 22, 2015 20:18:03 GMT -6
Just forget you ordered anything. Sometime in the future your clothing will be shipped. If it fits or not is a second issue.
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Post by wisdom on Mar 22, 2015 20:18:58 GMT -6
Shouldn't we more concerned with the fact that in a relatively short time, they went from issuing quick timely refunds on cancellations, to stalling on them, to saying they do them once a week, to then stalling those, to now saying refunds only happen once monthly. To me that spells disaster. It means chances are (very) good they are also having trouble paying for everything else. In other words, it's almost over Johnny. Why isn't this a bigger deal? Help me understand why we are even discussing other things like 23 and 24 oz denims, suprima cotton, who's running their new looms, etc. etc. ? The people who think this is a big deal and don't buy the explanations Roman gave have already bailed.. some have moved on and some are still on a crusade to save everyone else from the evil's of LD. It seems some will not rest until the company is bankrupt and their worldviews are confirmed.. then what? 20 pages of "I told you so and I saw this coming?" Maybe some people want to talk about the company's products, rather than (or in addition to) the company itself. I don't see why we need to continue to discuss the horrible lead time, inconsistent customer service, variation in quality experiences in every single thread about LD. Regarding the company solvency, Roman gave a possible explanation.. not saying he's developed a reputation for spouting gospel or anything, but, although biased, he is in a better position to provide an explanation than anyone here (except perhaps, Dirty_Denim, who I respected before this, but even more now for recusing himself from this discussion). I don't get why every LD thread, and even threads on other brands, need to be hijacked to the point that they become a cautionary tale to anyone considering, or holding, an LD order. |
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Post by variable on Mar 22, 2015 20:24:54 GMT -6
I don't get why every LD thread, and even threads on other brands, need to be hijacked to the point that they become a cautionary tale to anyone considering, or holding, an LD order. It doesn't. I think people get it, there are risks involved in the business model. We don't need to gloss over any issues, but we certainly don't need to harp on them either. I'm interested to see if LD can pull off producing their own fabrics. Can't let all (most) production of selvedge stay overseas, after all. |
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Post by Old26 on Mar 22, 2015 20:41:31 GMT -6
Good point. I checked his replies in the other thread and he did state that the 60 day limit is established by authorize.net. Their site says 120 days. So, there is a discrepancy there. He also said (and Sal's said this in the past) that there is an additional delay due to people doing charge backs shortly after requesting a refund - so LD would be refunding twice the original amount and jacking up their bank account and internal accounting. And, keep in mind, the 120 day limit IS indeed set by authorize.net, and many of the orders that folks here have announced that they've cancelled have been from November, so they are subject to the limits put in place that LD is working to eliminate. This would be corrected through better communication with customers when they request refunds. Is it indicative of LD cutting and running with money or being malicious? I don't think so. To paraphrase Winterland from an earlier reply: don't confuse incompetence with maliciousness. I hope it's incompetence. I've officially tried everything I can do. Talked to Laura, Sal, Kahla, and Roman in that order. And I've talked to my credit card company, but since it was beyond 60 days, and I don't live within a 100 mile radius of the merchant, I am SoL, and my money is in LD's hands. So if it's incompetence, and they want to run a legitimate business, then I will have my refund soon. If not, then I want everyone to know. exophobe: The other guy with regards to Gustin was trying to be a beacon for potential customers that G workshirts might not fit you properly so stay away at all costs for all their products. Depending if I get my refund within the next few weeks (8 week wait will be understandable right?) I'm going to be a beacon for those who are potential customers of LD that they might not even get their money back. Stop. Quit posting on every LD thread. Unless you and others have business in a thread, enough of the BS. Future posts deleted with no more warnings. Nobody appointed you forum beacon. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2015 21:29:48 GMT -6
Someone brought up a point, someone countered, and I responded, someone responded, so I responded again. Is that not allowed anymore (well obviously it isn't now in anything LD, but before). Do I need to wait for an appointment to give an update on my refund situation? Because it is pretty serious if a company can't pay back a refund in a timely manner. And no, it's not BS. Feel free to move this to an LD issue thread. Or delete it, since you do have Mod powers.
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Post by Winterland on Mar 22, 2015 22:59:31 GMT -6
Someone brought up a point, someone countered, and I responded, someone responded, so I responded again. Is that not allowed anymore (well obviously it isn't now in anything LD, but before). Do I need to wait for an appointment to give an update on my refund situation? Because it is pretty serious if a company can't pay back a refund in a timely manner. And no, it's not BS. Feel free to move this to an LD issue thread. Or delete it, since you do have Mod powers. To all applicable. We are all adults here. At some point bashing/criticism repeating the same thing over and over is not allowed on this forum. We all agree refunds should be given if asked for. It seems like that has been addressed. There is a certain time frame to that. If it never comes then that's another issue. That is not the case now. Please call LD to get issues addressed. No one here can make that happen.  |
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Post by metals37 on Apr 2, 2015 7:33:20 GMT -6
So getting back to the super heavy not made yet denim..... I was thinking of getting in on this just for the uniqueness of it, but they raised prices and it's now $189  At that price point I'm better off looking elsewhere |
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