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Post by doctorcowboy on Mar 18, 2015 8:47:19 GMT -6
I'm really tempted. Just because it would be neat to have some jeans made by a local shop with locally grown cotton that's locally spun. Kind of cool. Plus, the inconsistencies in fabric that will naturally occur since they are learning the process.
However, without a KS discount (I didn't get in on that), I think $150+ is too much to toss at an "experiment" when there are alternatives out there where the fit and quality is well known, and the price is comparable. I'll sit this one out unless they produce some good detail shots of the denim or offer a wide-scale discount. I'll toss $75-80 at an experiment that is slated to arrive in 6 months (or 12 months, whenever).
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Post by ickes on Mar 18, 2015 9:53:42 GMT -6
Since I have a KS discount I kind of want to gamble on this. I've never owned a pair of jeans in this weight class before as they're always been out of my price range and this seems like a great chance to bag a pair at a decent price (even though i'll most likely be waiting for it for half a year). I usually wear slim jeans, but since these are so heavy I was thinking of going regular to increase aeration and comfort. What fit and sizing would those of you with super heavyweight experience recommend for these jeans in relation to the way you buy your normal pair's of jeans? I agree with what some of the other members have said. If I were you I would do research on some of the Japanese brands sold over at Rakuten (Iron Heart, Oni, etc.), find the fit that will work best for you and buy one of them if you want to experiment with heavy denim. In my opinion this will be a much wiser use of your money. |
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Post by stinky on Mar 18, 2015 10:06:12 GMT -6
The issue that I have is that the fabric does not seem to exist. There aren't any pictures of it on their website, at least. There's a small scrap of something on a social media site that may or may not be this fabric, but in all likelihood, this fabric is actually a bunch of indigo dyed supima yarn and white supima yarn in bins waiting to be woven.
So, they haven't proven capable of making my products in over double the estimated time with fabric that already exists . . . how am I supposed to be confident that they are capable of a) actually weaving the fabric, and then b) making jawns out of that fabric? I just don't see it as something that LD is capable of doing in its current iteration. Frankly, I think the wildcard here is loom reliability.
I'm with others on this . . . I certainly hope it works out and it becomes a reliable option in the future, but I've already provided them with as large of a working line of credit as I am comfortable risking.
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Post by davelewis on Mar 18, 2015 10:08:46 GMT -6
Since I have a KS discount I kind of want to gamble on this. I've never owned a pair of jeans in this weight class before as they're always been out of my price range and this seems like a great chance to bag a pair at a decent price (even though i'll most likely be waiting for it for half a year). I usually wear slim jeans, but since these are so heavy I was thinking of going regular to increase aeration and comfort. What fit and sizing would those of you with super heavyweight experience recommend for these jeans in relation to the way you buy your normal pair's of jeans? I agree with what some of the other members have said. If I were you I would do research on some of the Japanese brands sold over at Rakuten (Iron Heart, Oni, etc.), find the fit that will work best for you and buy one of them if you want to experiment with heavy denim. In my opinion this will be a much wiser use of your money. I agree along with Ickes, and others, in that you will most likely have a much more fulfilling experience buying some heavy from Japan. That way, you'll know what you are getting, and get it quickly, and produced by someone who knows what there doing. I think many people underestimate the ability to produce, and sew heavy denim, within spec, and quality. In my opinion, for what its worth, the chance that LD will satisfy this would be about the equivalent of picking a number on a roulette wheel. |
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Post by DigDug on Mar 18, 2015 10:13:06 GMT -6
Roman at one time posted that he wanted to make Chambray's. Wish he had started with something smaller/lighter.
I would have backed something that seemed more reasonable.
Roman sure has a "Go Big" mentality.
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Post by stinky on Mar 18, 2015 10:17:49 GMT -6
Roman at one time posted that he wanted to make Chambray's. Wish he had started with something smaller/lighter. I would have backed something that seemed more reasonable. Roman sure has a "Go Big" mentality. Keep in mind that i know zero . . . absolutely zero . . . about making fabric, but it seems to me that the margin of error is much higher on a thicker fabric than a thinner one. If you screw up on a thick fabric, it can be "character" vs. a thin one where a flaw is likely to simply look bad. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 10:56:50 GMT -6
we also don't know what sort of reliability these machines might have and Roman's ability to have them serviced if there is an issue. we're assuming the fabric doesn't exist as there are no photos of it (which is easiest/best way to sell something). they're telling customers that some delays are due to a broken button-holer...can't imagine how exponential delays might be if the loom(s) itself require maintenance.
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Post by koganator on Mar 18, 2015 11:50:47 GMT -6
Since I have a KS discount I kind of want to gamble on this. I've never owned a pair of jeans in this weight class before as they're always been out of my price range and this seems like a great chance to bag a pair at a decent price (even though i'll most likely be waiting for it for half a year). I usually wear slim jeans, but since these are so heavy I was thinking of going regular to increase aeration and comfort. What fit and sizing would those of you with super heavyweight experience recommend for these jeans in relation to the way you buy your normal pair's of jeans? I agree with what some of the other members have said. If I were you I would do research on some of the Japanese brands sold over at Rakuten (Iron Heart, Oni, etc.), find the fit that will work best for you and buy one of them if you want to experiment with heavy denim. In my opinion this will be a much wiser use of your money. The thing is that if I were to buy something in a similar weight class on rakutan, I would still pay at least 160 with shipping whereas only 90 bucks for the supima jeans. I don't think even on rakutan there are 24oz jeans for less than a hundred bucks... Actually just finished ordering them, we'll see if I get them before september. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 12:10:49 GMT -6
koganator I agree with what some of the other members have said. If I were you I would do research on some of the Japanese brands sold over at Rakuten (Iron Heart, Oni, etc.), find the fit that will work best for you and buy one of them if you want to experiment with heavy denim. In my opinion this will be a much wiser use of your money. The thing is that if I were to buy something in a similar weight class on rakutan, I would still pay at least 160 with shipping whereas only 90 bucks for the supima jeans. I don't think even on rakutan there are 24oz jeans for less than a hundred bucks... Actually just finished ordering them, we'll see if I get them before september. I guess it just depends if wearing them right now and for the next x number of months until the Supimas come in (let's say 6 months to give LD the benefit of the doubt) is worth the extra $70+. Also, like a previous person said, we don't know if they even exist since there's no sewn up pics of them, or even a fabric sample. So there's that. |
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Post by ickes on Mar 18, 2015 12:12:32 GMT -6
koganator I agree with what some of the other members have said. If I were you I would do research on some of the Japanese brands sold over at Rakuten (Iron Heart, Oni, etc.), find the fit that will work best for you and buy one of them if you want to experiment with heavy denim. In my opinion this will be a much wiser use of your money. The thing is that if I were to buy something in a similar weight class on rakutan, I would still pay at least 160 with shipping whereas only 90 bucks for the supima jeans. I don't think even on rakutan there are 24oz jeans for less than a hundred bucks... Actually just finished ordering them, we'll see if I get them before september. Ok man, I hope it works out for you. The thing is that it's still a wiser purchase imo to spend 200 bucks on an absolutely beautiful and immaculately constructed pair of Japanese heavy denim than to throw 90 bucks at a complete unknown. I'm not trying to argue with you at all koganator it's just that I have been there myself and have learned this lesson first hand. |
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Post by koganator on Mar 18, 2015 12:43:05 GMT -6
The thing is that if I were to buy something in a similar weight class on rakutan, I would still pay at least 160 with shipping whereas only 90 bucks for the supima jeans. I don't think even on rakutan there are 24oz jeans for less than a hundred bucks... Actually just finished ordering them, we'll see if I get them before september. Ok man, I hope it works out for you. The thing is that it's still a wiser purchase imo to spend 200 bucks on an absolutely beautiful and immaculately constructed pair of Japanese heavy denim than to throw 90 bucks at a complete unknown. I'm not trying to argue with you at all koganator it's just that I have been there myself and have learned this lesson first hand. I totally get where you're coming from and what you're saying makes complete sense. I'm kinda of a cheapskate though (which begs the question what I'm doing on this forum in the first place, lol). So paying over 120 bucks for jeans is a tough pill to swallow for me. According to my line of thought, it's the equivalent of buying a grab bag item. Could be cool, could be not. Only one way to find out  Plus i'm as patient as a tortoise; time is not much of an issue for me. |
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Post by wdw on Mar 18, 2015 12:49:04 GMT -6
koganator, I'm with ickes and the others on this. Far better to spend more on guaranteed highest quality goods that will arrive next week than to give an interest-free loan to someone with a questionable delivery record to provide goods he's never made before at a time of his choosing.
Buy cheap, buy twice, as my granny said as well.
And if nothing else, quality Japanese gear will always sell at good prices, even second hand.
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Post by koganator on Mar 18, 2015 12:53:38 GMT -6
koganator, I'm with ickes and the others on this. Far better to spend more on guaranteed highest quality goods that will arrive next week than to give an interest-free loan to someone with a questionable delivery record to provide goods he's never made before at a time of his choosing. Buy cheap, buy twice, as my granny said as well. And if nothing else, quality Japanese gear will always sell at good prices, even second hand. True that. But I have 2 Lawless jeans already and i'm satisfied with the quality, did it take many moons to get those pairs? Most definitely. Even though their delivery schedule is pretty crappy, the stuff they ship out is pretty solid, so i'm curious to know what they do with their own in-house selvage whenever they get the looms spinning. |
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Post by koganator on Mar 18, 2015 13:01:31 GMT -6
I didn't size up. Good to know though, thanks for the tip.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 14:08:28 GMT -6
koganator, I'm with ickes and the others on this. Far better to spend more on guaranteed highest quality goods that will arrive next week than to give an interest-free loan to someone with a questionable delivery record to provide goods he's never made before at a time of his choosing. Buy cheap, buy twice, as my granny said as well. And if nothing else, quality Japanese gear will always sell at good prices, even second hand. True that. But I have 2 Lawless jeans already and i'm satisfied with the quality, did it take many moons to get those pairs? Most definitely. Even though their delivery schedule is pretty crappy, the stuff they ship out is pretty solid, so i'm curious to know what they do with their own in-house selvage whenever they get the looms spinning. If you already have received items, and have had a good experience so far, then there's no reason not to stick with them, and more power to you. Have you put up fit pics yet of the items you received? |
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Post by doctorcowboy on Mar 18, 2015 16:58:59 GMT -6
LD has posted a picture of the tag for these jeans on IG, and their site also has a closely cropped pic of the coin pocket for these jeans - but, no clear pic of the denim itself or the overall jeans.
The thing that catches my attention, though, is that their site says that there's 200 jeans and 100 jackets left. I think someone's been jiggering with the numbers again.
I'm still curious, but not $150 curious, and especially not if they keep pushing the artificial scarcity.
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Post by jdtmn on Mar 18, 2015 18:26:05 GMT -6
LD has posted a picture of the tag for these jeans on IG, and their site also has a closely cropped pic of the coin pocket for these jeans - but, no clear pic of the denim itself or the overall jeans. The thing that catches my attention, though, is that their site says that there's 200 jeans and 100 jackets left. I think someone's been jiggering with the numbers again. I'm still curious, but not $150 curious, and especially not if they keep pushing the arteificial scarcity. I wonder if that's just a mock up and not the actual denim? Can't say I love the patch. Surprisingly plain when you consider that limited hand carved sugar skull one they had early on. |
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Post by complex on Mar 18, 2015 18:29:05 GMT -6
I decided to make an account to post here: I was the customer that called Lawless the day of the 24oz launch and asked them if they would do a jacket. Laura said no initially but spoke to Roman about the idea while checking on my order. Roman liked it and the jacket was on the site within 45mins. Regarding the "KS Discount" - When purchasing this jacket I searched and found a permanent 50% off code for Lawless. (Sorry if the screenshot formats badly, I don't do forum stuff often) - It seems to me that people on here haven't heard of this code so I wanted to share it with you.  I got my 24oz trucker for around $98 which I think is a good deal. In fact, I purchased it full price and found the code afterward, so I took a risk and bought another one to the same specs with 50% off and requested a refund and cancellation for the first jacket. They refunded me the next day. Beside the wait time, I have had nothing but good experiences with LD&Co customer service. |
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Post by jdtmn on Mar 18, 2015 18:33:30 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 18:36:11 GMT -6
I think the wall of text patch is kind of goofy. Would be good printed on a card included with each pair. I'm not excited by a paragraph on the patch....maybe they could have just written tl:dr: 24oz slowcrafted denim
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 18:40:48 GMT -6
I think there is a disconnect with how they view a 'workforce'. Similarly to how the kickstarter was to fund machines with no mention of operators, this write-up speaks only to the workforce of looms. A tool is only as useful as the person wielding it. I'd like to hear more about the skilled craftspersons working them. |
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Post by seth on Mar 18, 2015 19:10:23 GMT -6
we also don't know what sort of reliability these machines might have and Roman's ability to have them serviced if there is an issue. we're assuming the fabric doesn't exist as there are no photos of it (which is easiest/best way to sell something). they're telling customers that some delays are due to a broken button-holer...can't imagine how exponential delays might be if the loom(s) itself require maintenance. They will require maintenance, and it's not just loom maintenance that they face. As far as I know, super heavy weight denim is a new trend. So it's likely these Draper looms have never been adjusted and calibrated for such a heavy weight product before. Who knows how many runs it could take to dial in the loom itself and then dial in the quality of the resulting denim. My guess is that it'll take half a year to get the denim right, and then into production from there. Also, it's much harder to sew up 24 oz denim than any of their current offerings. There will be training time for the sewing staff and extra quality control time compared to other products. When did the clock start for these? First week of March? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 19:15:56 GMT -6
I agree with everyone in this thread who has added a cautionary tip. There is no reason to assume these jeans will ever come to exist based on LD's current performance in all categories. The details of what "current performance" is have been discussed to death and will likely continue to be discussed to death. For LD it's a case of make your bed...sleep in your bed.
Still, I opted in with a KS discount. Why? Well I seem to be in the lower percentiles when it comes to how much cash everyone fronted LD so I had some wiggle room. Plus, these things will be epic if they come to exist. Maybe epically weird, epically good, epically horrible. I don't know. But I want them for my collection. Fabric noobs making heavy denim on old looms? I cannot avoid looking at that car crash.
I do STRONGLY CONCUR with the advice that if you want to explore heavy denim for the first time, you should research what's on Rakuten and go from there. There are so many options that it's hard to pick a pair. Or just get some UB321 from unbranded, 21 oz for about 120 dollars US. You might find you really think heavy denim sucks. You never know. I hate wearing mine above 80 degrees. I know lots of people do the year round thing but I put the 16+ ounce away for the summer. Life offers too much fun to waste my time trying to act like my balls aren't boiling in heavy leg carpets.
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Post by Winterland on Mar 18, 2015 20:11:58 GMT -6
I decided to make an account to post here: I was the customer that called Lawless the day of the 24oz launch and asked them if they would do a jacket. Laura said no initially but spoke to Roman about the idea while checking on my order. Roman liked it and the jacket was on the site within 45mins. Regarding the "KS Discount" - When purchasing this jacket I searched and found a permanent 50% off code for Lawless. (Sorry if the screenshot formats badly, I don't do forum stuff often) - It seems to me that people on here haven't heard of this code so I wanted to share it with you. I got my 24oz trucker for around $98 which I think is a good deal. In fact, I purchased it full price and found the code afterward, so I took a risk and bought another one to the same specs with 50% off and requested a refund and cancellation for the first jacket. They refunded me the next day. Beside the wait time, I have had nothing but good experiences with LD&Co customer service. Wow great find. Thanks. Now I am tempted on the 24oz. |
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Post by oatwilly on Mar 18, 2015 20:40:08 GMT -6
Everyone...hellooooo, reality check...they've already proven they can't manage to get jeans to people when they already have the fabric to make them on-hand in-house. You'd have to be a complete maroon to buy in on this
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