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Post by exophobe on Jun 9, 2015 9:26:49 GMT -6
The problem with the pricing discussion is that very few people here would ever consider a common projects sneaker, so when many here think sneaker they think $50-100 for something like a jack Purcell or vans or cons or whatever. This is not the market Gustin is working its way into. As I said, I think they've knocked it out of the park for the market they're targeting, I just don't know how much of their customer base is after this product. Based on the reaction here and the reaction on styleforum, I don't think it's a lot of them. I'm sure these will fund, though. They've made plenty of headway for one day of funding.
Keep in mind that Greats is the same-ish model, except they make the stuff up front, so pricing should be right in line between the two, which it is, as long as you don't look at the horween. Being that the leather I'm interested in seeing these in is horween, I'm likely priced out of them, which is a bummer.
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Post by Old26 on Jun 9, 2015 9:34:17 GMT -6
The problem with the pricing discussion is that very few people here would ever consider a common projects sneaker, so when many here think sneaker they think $50-100 for something like a jack Purcell or vans or cons or whatever. This is not the market Gustin is working its way into. As I said, I think they've knocked it out of the park for the market they're targeting, I just don't know how much of their customer base is after this product. Based on the reaction here and the reaction on styleforum, I don't think it's a lot of them. I'm sure these will fund, though. They've made plenty of headway for one day of funding. Keep in mind that Greats is the same-ish model, except they make the stuff up front, so pricing should be right in line between the two, which it is, as long as you don't look at the horween. Being that the leather I'm interested in seeing these in is horween, I'm likely priced out of them, which is a bummer. Taking the price out of it, I've waited less time for a custom leather jacket, made in Scotland for chrissakes. Just can't see it. It's an odd offering, and while I get it style-wise - they have worn Frye's since forever - but it's just an odd one to me. And I spend a ton on clothing and gear... |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 9:39:16 GMT -6
Old26: But that's just it. You're a boots guy, not a high end sneaker guy. You're a denim guy, not a high end sneaker guy. You aren't the demographic that G is looking at when releasing these offerings. I'm not a high end sneaker guy either, so I'm not going to buy either. G isn't trying to get all the customers who have bought G products in the past to buy these sneakers. Just those who are into them. G is perfectly fine with having their customers buy a particular offering, but not another. I will continue to buy their denim and shirts. I won't buy their shoes, because I'm perfectly fine with sub-$100 JPs. But for those that are looking at products like CPs/Butteros/etc, these are a competitive product. Those who are arguing about the price not being competitive when it is, probably aren't the demographic that Gustin or Greats are looking at in the first place. If I were going to drop $200+, I'd definitely get a pair of boots over a pair of leather sneakers. But that's just me, and I'm not the demographic they are trying to market to. And I'm fine with that. But some of you guys seem to think that every G customer is the demographic they are trying to market to, and that's simply not true. Compare apples to apples, Gustin/Greats to CPs/Butteros/Rancourts, not apples (High end leather sneakers) to oranges (mid to low end mass produced sneakers).
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Post by felizuno on Jun 9, 2015 10:16:46 GMT -6
Four Pins hating: fourpins.com/style/minimal-sneaker-op-ed/Guessing they saw the day long headline article on Put This On. At least they don't call out G by name. Also now I want to know if they're made in the Lanvin factory lol |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 10:21:19 GMT -6
I just don't see the high end sneaker crowd as wanting to wait to buy. Wouldn't they rather touch and feel first?
If they put the time and effort into having the stock store open 24/7 with more ready to wear I'd buy more stuff.
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Post by bentin on Jun 9, 2015 10:34:16 GMT -6
Wouldn't high end sneaker kids want to buy from high end sneaker companies, not budget denim shops? I like all sorts of stupidly expensive stuff, but I wouldn't buy any of them from a budget brand. The reason fashion items work is the brand and G is a budget brand, offering one semi-fashion item. Does not compute.
While I don't like the Rancourt option either, at least they're US made, with a defined sole by a known manufacturer with some brand value.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 10:40:07 GMT -6
Wouldn't high end sneaker kids want to buy from high end sneaker companies, not budget denim shops? I like all sorts of stupidly expensive stuff, but I wouldn't buy any of them from a budget brand. The reason fashion items work is the brand and G is a budget brand, offering one semi-fashion item. Does not compute. While I don't like the Rancourt option either, at least they're US made, with a defined sole by a known manufacturer with some brand value. I don't know. I remember a time when ickes said he'd never buy a pair of IHs in his life because he couldn't justify the price. I'm pretty sure it'll be pretty much along the same lines with people trying out high end sneakers for the first time. Gustin/LD/CF/etc are budget brands into high end denim compared to IH/Onis/PBJs/etc. @61scout: we had no issue with waiting 2-3 months for denim because of the price difference. You can't give the high end sneaker crowd the same benefit of the doubt? |
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Post by exophobe on Jun 9, 2015 10:41:28 GMT -6
Wouldn't high end sneaker kids want to buy from high end sneaker companies, not budget denim shops? I like all sorts of stupidly expensive stuff, but I wouldn't buy any of them from a budget brand. The reason fashion items work is the brand and G is a budget brand, offering one semi-fashion item. Does not compute. While I don't like the Rancourt option either, at least they're US made, with a defined sole by a known manufacturer with some brand value. Yeah, I think they often underestimate the value of branding in the fashion market. Also, just because you haven't heard of Margom doesn't mean it's unknown or a non-entity. Vibram has devalued their brand in my eye by making custom compounds for everyone they work with. I can have a heavy treaded vibram sole and be sliding around on wet concrete because the thing just got hard as a rock because it's a little too cold for the particular compound. Got sick of slipping around on Vibram soles and now try to avoid them if at all possible. Actually one of my main detractors with the Rancourt. Re-reading, though, I think you might have meant "with a defined sole, and made by a known manufacturer with some brand value", and weren't referring to Vibram/Margom at all.  |
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Post by ickes on Jun 9, 2015 10:48:04 GMT -6
Are there that many male nurses? Who else would buy that white hospital shoe? Horrible. In streetwear all-white sneaks are extremely popular. They are also popular with 20'somethings who will wear them with button up shirts and indigo jeans. I love me some all white kicks...canvas though. |
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Post by Old26 on Jun 9, 2015 10:54:40 GMT -6
Old26: But that's just it. You're a boots guy, not a high end sneaker guy. You're a denim guy, not a high end sneaker guy. You aren't the demographic that G is looking at when releasing these offerings. I'm not a high end sneaker guy either, so I'm not going to buy either. G isn't trying to get all the customers who have bought G products in the past to buy these sneakers. Just those who are into them. G is perfectly fine with having their customers buy a particular offering, but not another. I will continue to buy their denim and shirts. I won't buy their shoes, because I'm perfectly fine with sub-$100 JPs. But for those that are looking at products like CPs/Butteros/etc, these are a competitive product. Those who are arguing about the price not being competitive when it is, probably aren't the demographic that Gustin or Greats are looking at in the first place. If I were going to drop $200+, I'd definitely get a pair of boots over a pair of leather sneakers. But that's just me, and I'm not the demographic they are trying to market to. And I'm fine with that. But some of you guys seem to think that every G customer is the demographic they are trying to market to, and that's simply not true. Compare apples to apples, Gustin/Greats to CPs/Butteros/Rancourts, not apples (High end leather sneakers) to oranges (mid to low end mass produced sneakers). No no no! I'm a gear guy - I have about 30 pairs of sneaks in various colors, materials, etc along with about 20 pairs of boots. But all of these are premium brands, and Gustin is not. They won't even answer my questions about sizing! And then, waiting 6 months - being optimistic? The big blow was the Italian-made thing. Next is the wait. Then price. On an unproven shoe? I paid once a high (for me at the time) priced denim from them - the Beasts. They are in no way comparable to IH or the like, but OK. How do we know what these shoes will be like once released? |
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Post by whiskeyriver on Jun 9, 2015 11:00:54 GMT -6
Not to be "that guy," but I'm gonna be that guy. Putting Horween's leather on that sole seems disrespectful to Horween......and possibly the cow that gave its life for it.
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Post by Old26 on Jun 9, 2015 11:02:23 GMT -6
Not to be "that guy," but I'm gonna be that guy. Putting Horween's leather on that sole seems disrespectful to Horween......and possibly the cow that gave its life for it. That's funny - and kinda my perspective as well. But then, I was OK with NB and their limited offering...at least NB is a known entity. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 11:05:04 GMT -6
Old26: But that's just it. You're a boots guy, not a high end sneaker guy. You're a denim guy, not a high end sneaker guy. You aren't the demographic that G is looking at when releasing these offerings. I'm not a high end sneaker guy either, so I'm not going to buy either. G isn't trying to get all the customers who have bought G products in the past to buy these sneakers. Just those who are into them. G is perfectly fine with having their customers buy a particular offering, but not another. I will continue to buy their denim and shirts. I won't buy their shoes, because I'm perfectly fine with sub-$100 JPs. But for those that are looking at products like CPs/Butteros/etc, these are a competitive product. Those who are arguing about the price not being competitive when it is, probably aren't the demographic that Gustin or Greats are looking at in the first place. If I were going to drop $200+, I'd definitely get a pair of boots over a pair of leather sneakers. But that's just me, and I'm not the demographic they are trying to market to. And I'm fine with that. But some of you guys seem to think that every G customer is the demographic they are trying to market to, and that's simply not true. Compare apples to apples, Gustin/Greats to CPs/Butteros/Rancourts, not apples (High end leather sneakers) to oranges (mid to low end mass produced sneakers). No no no! I'm a gear guy - I have about 30 pairs of sneaks in various colors, materials, etc along with about 20 pairs of boots. But all of these are premium brands, and Gustin is not. They won't even answer my questions about sizing! And then, waiting 6 months - being optimistic? The big blow was the Italian-made thing. Next is the wait. Then price. On an unproven shoe? I paid once a high (for me at the time) priced denim from them - the Beasts. They are in no way comparable to IH or the like, but OK. How do we know what these shoes will be like once released?Why don't we wait and find out before passing judgement? Of course they aren't on the level of quality of IH, but they are also priced to show that. But for many, the difference in quality from G/LD/CF to IH isn't as much as the difference in price. For some, it is. But to most, it isn't. I'm perfectly happy with the quality of the G denims I own. If I owned a pair of IH, it'd probably blow my mind on how great the quality is, but until I cross that bridge, I don't see the quality difference justify the price difference. People talk about heritage and stories and whatnot, and that's fine. But for me, I wear my Gs. They're comfortable, they look like quality denim, and are priced at a price I can justify and afford. That's all that matters to me. |
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Post by julian on Jun 9, 2015 11:06:22 GMT -6
How do we know what these shoes will be like once released? This. I've lost count of the time I've seen prototypes and finished samples of trainers and clothing items that - unsurprisingly - look and feel absolutely great... but when the retail versions appear they're noticeably not up to the same standard. In theory, Gustin are going to dump a tonne of orders onto (presumably) one factory, all to be hand-made and all at roughly the same time. That's a potential worry in itself. Just too much of a risk for trainers that don't seem to offer anything that you couldn't pick up tomorrow from a tried, trusted and respected brand. As others have mentioned, branding and heritage are everything when it comes to trainers. Which is half the reason there are comparatively few newcomers launched (and even less that survive). |
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Post by bentin on Jun 9, 2015 11:11:46 GMT -6
Wouldn't high end sneaker kids want to buy from high end sneaker companies, not budget denim shops? I like all sorts of stupidly expensive stuff, but I wouldn't buy any of them from a budget brand. The reason fashion items work is the brand and G is a budget brand, offering one semi-fashion item. Does not compute. While I don't like the Rancourt option either, at least they're US made, with a defined sole by a known manufacturer with some brand value. Yeah, I think they often underestimate the value of branding in the fashion market. Also, just because you haven't heard of Margom doesn't mean it's unknown or a non-entity. Vibram has devalued their brand in my eye by making custom compounds for everyone they work with. I can have a heavy treaded vibram sole and be sliding around on wet concrete because the thing just got hard as a rock because it's a little too cold for the particular compound. Got sick of slipping around on Vibram soles and now try to avoid them if at all possible. Actually one of my main detractors with the Rancourt. Re-reading, though, I think you might have meant "with a defined sole, and made by a known manufacturer with some brand value", and weren't referring to Vibram/Margom at all. Haha, true. But I hate me some Vibram in the rain. Deadly bastards. |
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Post by bentin on Jun 9, 2015 11:13:30 GMT -6
In streetwear all-white sneaks are extremely popular. They are also popular with 20'somethings who will wear them with button up shirts and indigo jeans. I love me some all white kicks...canvas though. All white, or a natural chuck with some stripes on the sole? All white just makes me think of Keds. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 11:13:42 GMT -6
Not to be "that guy," but I'm gonna be that guy. Putting Horween's leather on that sole seems disrespectful to Horween......and possibly the cow that gave its life for it. That sounds like a reach..disrespectful to Horween and the cow. Funny what people think of when they run out of things to complain about. What's wrong with that sole? |
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Post by bentin on Jun 9, 2015 11:16:13 GMT -6
d, do you get paid by Gustin? Your defense of them has grown quite fervent in the last few topics. It's nice to have a counter argument to some of the negatives, even my comments, but you can't seem to let any criticism stand on these.
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Post by faustas on Jun 9, 2015 11:22:27 GMT -6
The problem with the pricing discussion is that very few people here would ever consider a common projects sneaker, so when many here think sneaker they think $50-100 for something like a jack Purcell or vans or cons or whatever. This is not the market Gustin is working its way into. As I said, I think they've knocked it out of the park for the market they're targeting, I just don't know how much of their customer base is after this product. Based on the reaction here and the reaction on styleforum, I don't think it's a lot of them. I'm sure these will fund, though. They've made plenty of headway for one day of funding. Keep in mind that Greats is the same-ish model, except they make the stuff up front, so pricing should be right in line between the two, which it is, as long as you don't look at the horween. Being that the leather I'm interested in seeing these in is horween, I'm likely priced out of them, which is a bummer. I would agree that G is targeting a different market (than the core raw selvedge crowd that has backed G products for years). Here are some of my thoughts: - From the G board back in the days, there was already a strong voice/discussion about boots, work boots, etc. So my first impression is that a lot of your style are more "rugged" and, perhaps, practical in nature.
- That doesn't scream sneaker style to me at all (pretty obvious)
- I feel that the people that "hate" on the price of the sneakers resemble the ones that also hate on the $1200 macbook that only has 1 usb3-c port
- Why is anyone surprised by $250 Horween sneakers? I recall the Horween simple wallet was some $80-90 bucks and a lot of people jumped on it
- Just like how I will unlikely ever spend $300 on a pair of jeans, I'm sure a lot of people would never spend more than $xx on a pair of sneakers. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
- Gustin is definitely extending its brand. It's brand image may not be catching up as quickly as its products.
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Post by bentin on Jun 9, 2015 11:26:49 GMT -6
Maybe I've said enough about these, but the price doesn't bother me. The copy of an existing brand with no differentiation does. If they had red bar tacks, a few design elements that were unique and were US made, I'd think $259 for a Horween version would be fair.
But for them to claim that they can't find a US manufacturer that meets their standards, when we've seen how low those standards can be for shirting, just doesn't ring true. This is Dolla Dolla Bills, nothing more.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 11:31:31 GMT -6
d, do you get paid by Gustin? Your defense of them has grown quite fervent in the last few topics. It's nice to have a counter argument to some of the negatives, even my comments, but you can't seem to let any criticism stand on these. If the criticism was warranted, then sure. When G effed up a ton of offerings from the late summer to fall of last year and went radio silent, I didn't defend them, I was upset as well, and shared my fair share of criticism. It just seems that some people feel, because they've purchased G products in the past, that G slighted them by not catering their new offerings specifically to them (i.e. how dare they price me out of the shoes), and so are looking for reasons to discredit them and devalue what they are doing and why no one should buy them, without waiting for them to be properly reviewed. This, as @david pointed out, happens with every new product line they offer. |
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Post by faustas on Jun 9, 2015 11:37:56 GMT -6
Not to be "that guy," but I'm gonna be that guy. Putting Horween's leather on that sole seems disrespectful to Horween......and possibly the cow that gave its life for it. That sounds like a reach..disrespectful to Horween and the cow. Funny what people think of when they run out of things to complain about. What's wrong with that sole? I thought that was a joke. So I'm going to throw in a joke as well and let you all know that Brady disrespected Horween and the cow when he had those footballs deflated. |
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Post by bentin on Jun 9, 2015 11:39:25 GMT -6
d, do you get paid by Gustin? Your defense of them has grown quite fervent in the last few topics. It's nice to have a counter argument to some of the negatives, even my comments, but you can't seem to let any criticism stand on these. If the criticism was warranted, then sure. When G effed up a ton of offerings from the late summer to fall of last year and went radio silent, I didn't defend them, I was upset as well, and shared my fair share of criticism. It just seems that some people feel, because they've purchased G products in the past, that G slighted them by not catering their new offerings specifically to them (i.e. how dare they price me out of the shoes), and so are looking for reasons to discredit them and devalue what they are doing and why no one should buy them, without waiting for them to be properly reviewed. This, as @david pointed out, happens with every new product line they offer. Since neither of us want these, how about I'll leave 'em alone if you leave 'em alone until they arrive? It's like two back to back 90 day moratoriums! |
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Post by Old26 on Jun 9, 2015 11:41:11 GMT -6
Dev,
I have to say - part of my G rants are based on being a counterpoint to your incessant defense of them - even on products you don't own or haven't seen.
You could argue that many more here are bagging on them than defending them, but really, you won't allow anyone to say anything negative about G without getting bent. Let it be. Ignore the posts/posters that annoy you. But I'm just sayin' that the more you do that, the more you're going to get in return. It's just old. Let people have their say. Quit bashing the posts. Offer a counter or move on.
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Post by brentkuz on Jun 9, 2015 11:44:21 GMT -6
I haven't gotten the vibe that Gustin is huge with the street wear culture. I basically see jeans/chinos with a button down and sneakers from college kids out at bars for there version of dressed up. Converse all stars are also $45. Levis are also $45. I've destroyed many levis/old navy/Aeropostale/american eagle jeans and they are that price point. My $45 converse have lasted much longer plus sneakers are going to get ruined. Especially white leather and soles that are white/tan. After a week of wearing my sneakers are dirty. I wear sneakers like sneakers not like some high end collectible. Just like how I wear jeans. I wear them to work, yard work, motorcycle etc. And raw denim lasts. I treat dress shoes like dress shoes, boots like boots, jeans like jeans, cars like cars. Etc. Sneakers just don't pass tests of time |
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