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Post by exophobe on Jan 29, 2016 11:38:18 GMT -6
Frankly, I'm fine with the plaid not lining up on the sides (under the arms) perfectly. However, I expect a few things from a pattern shirt: 1) The plaid should be squared up in all areas and match from side to side. 2) The plaid should be square running down the placket. 3) The pattern on the sleeves should be mirrored. 4) The pattern on the collar should be centered so that it is mirrored from left to right. 5) The pocket should be perfectly matched up. Ideally, if you look at a patterned shirt (especially with larger, multi colored patterns) from the front at a distance, the two front panels, the placket and the pocket should look like one continuous pattern--pretty much any shirt that you can get from Gap, BR, JCrew, etc. is going to exhibit this trait. I think the G shirt pattern issues are a result of two things: A) trying to use every single inch of fabric (i.e. they cut the panels from any piece of fabric where the template fits without regard to where they are on the pattern), and B) laziness/lack of attention to detail. Actually, A above is probably the big driver for this, that is, trying to make them most shirts out of the least amount of fabric possible. I think it's lack of attention to detail in cutting, and I'm guessing since Taylor Stitch stopped using them, this is something the sew shop refuses to address. It's possible they lost business and said they'd try harder, but if anything, as the volume of shirts Gustin has offered has increased, the problem has gotten bigger. I think it's in the volume of fabric being cut, however. Lets say you cut 100 blanks out of a roll of fabric, and then stack those on top of each other, put your template on top, and then run your fancy electric scissor thing. You're assuming that all 100 of those pieces of fabric aren't going to twist or pull during the cutting process -- unfortunately, since they're doing this on planet earth with fabric, you're going to get a little twist. The second part is that you need to have all the parts from the first piece of fabric together, otherwise any variation in pattern that was accounted for when you cut it out goes out the window. you're using the left sleeve from #1 with the right sleeve from #3, and the front left panel from #18, the front right panel from #7, etc. If you're cutting using one of the super-fancy laser cutters that cut a shirt one at a time, then you have the roll on one side, fabric comes in, gets cut, goes into a bucket for sewing, the next shirt goes into the next bucket. The super-duper fancy cutters automatically align by pattern then cut, I believe this is what Ratio says they use. Of course you still have to be careful in sewing, but if you have accurate cutting in the first place, any imperfections are going to be much harder to spot. The alternative is cutting one at a time like Ciano does, which doesn't work at the volume Gustin is running. With all the process guys around here, I think many of us know the nightmare of completely rebuilding a manufacturing plant around a change in the first step of a process. |
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Post by benjaminpersitz on Jan 29, 2016 11:59:15 GMT -6
Riddle me this. Taylor Stitch is in San Fran too, right? Are they not using some of the same factories as G? And yet TS stuff is LEAPS AND BOUNDS better than G in terms of quality and QC. They stopped making their patterned shirts in San Francisco about a year and a half ago, and stopped having the same problems as gustin at that time. My Yosemite is fairly well aligned. |
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Post by stinky on Jan 29, 2016 12:11:37 GMT -6
I think it's lack of attention to detail in cutting, and I'm guessing since Taylor Stitch stopped using them, this is something the sew shop refuses to address. It's possible they lost business and said they'd try harder, but if anything, as the volume of shirts Gustin has offered has increased, the problem has gotten bigger. I think it's in the volume of fabric being cut, however. Lets say you cut 100 blanks out of a roll of fabric, and then stack those on top of each other, put your template on top, and then run your fancy electric scissor thing. You're assuming that all 100 of those pieces of fabric aren't going to twist or pull during the cutting process -- unfortunately, since they're doing this on planet earth with fabric, you're going to get a little twist. The second part is that you need to have all the parts from the first piece of fabric together, otherwise any variation in pattern that was accounted for when you cut it out goes out the window. you're using the left sleeve from #1 with the right sleeve from #3, and the front left panel from #18, the front right panel from #7, etc. If you're cutting using one of the super-fancy laser cutters that cut a shirt one at a time, then you have the roll on one side, fabric comes in, gets cut, goes into a bucket for sewing, the next shirt goes into the next bucket. The super-duper fancy cutters automatically align by pattern then cut, I believe this is what Ratio says they use. Of course you still have to be careful in sewing, but if you have accurate cutting in the first place, any imperfections are going to be much harder to spot. The alternative is cutting one at a time like Ciano does, which doesn't work at the volume Gustin is running. With all the process guys around here, I think many of us know the nightmare of completely rebuilding a manufacturing plant around a change in the first step of a process. I get your point, and I think if G were in the business of manufacturing heavy equipment, food service, or architecture, these shirts would be excusable. As it is though, they happen to be in the garment business, which makes these problems infinitely less excusable, and they should probably go through the nightmare exercise of changing the first step in the process . . . |
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Post by exophobe on Jan 29, 2016 12:38:30 GMT -6
They stopped making their patterned shirts in San Francisco about a year and a half ago, and stopped having the same problems as gustin at that time. My Yosemite is fairly well aligned. If you want to keep thinking that, don't post pictures of it here. I thought all the Yosemite were now made in Portugal out of that Portuguese moleskin or whatever... |
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Post by exophobe on Jan 29, 2016 12:39:50 GMT -6
stinky -- ah but therein lies the rub. Gustin doesn't manufacture anything so it's not a process they have any control over.
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Post by devastitis on Jan 29, 2016 12:48:34 GMT -6
I think it's lack of attention to detail in cutting, and I'm guessing since Taylor Stitch stopped using them, this is something the sew shop refuses to address. It's possible they lost business and said they'd try harder, but if anything, as the volume of shirts Gustin has offered has increased, the problem has gotten bigger. I think it's in the volume of fabric being cut, however. Lets say you cut 100 blanks out of a roll of fabric, and then stack those on top of each other, put your template on top, and then run your fancy electric scissor thing. You're assuming that all 100 of those pieces of fabric aren't going to twist or pull during the cutting process -- unfortunately, since they're doing this on planet earth with fabric, you're going to get a little twist. The second part is that you need to have all the parts from the first piece of fabric together, otherwise any variation in pattern that was accounted for when you cut it out goes out the window. you're using the left sleeve from #1 with the right sleeve from #3, and the front left panel from #18, the front right panel from #7, etc. If you're cutting using one of the super-fancy laser cutters that cut a shirt one at a time, then you have the roll on one side, fabric comes in, gets cut, goes into a bucket for sewing, the next shirt goes into the next bucket. The super-duper fancy cutters automatically align by pattern then cut, I believe this is what Ratio says they use. Of course you still have to be careful in sewing, but if you have accurate cutting in the first place, any imperfections are going to be much harder to spot. The alternative is cutting one at a time like Ciano does, which doesn't work at the volume Gustin is running. With all the process guys around here, I think many of us know the nightmare of completely rebuilding a manufacturing plant around a change in the first step of a process. I get your point, and I think if G were in the business of manufacturing heavy equipment, food service, or architecture, these shirts would be excusable. As it is though, they happen to be in the garment business, which makes these problems infinitely less excusable, and they should probably go through the nightmare exercise of changing the first step in the process . . . They should, but they probably won't. They don't really need to, because most people don't notice these things. Heck, most of us didn't until a few people caused an uproar here and now all we see are misalignment in patterned shirts. Also, the complaints come from a small few, mostly from this forum. And when you calculate how many shirts they sell every week, a) we're just a drop in the bucket, b) most of us don't buy G patterned shirts anymore. So unless there's a hubbub elsewhere, which there seemingly isn't, G won't feel a need to go through that nightmare exercise of changing the first step in the process. I know I'm not buying any of their patterned shirts, or their shirts in general, so it doesn't matter all that much to me whether they fix it or not. I don't expect many of you guys to purchase as well, so I don't know what the reason for this to be brought up over and over again is, or what is trying to be accomplished. |
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Post by Old26 on Jan 29, 2016 12:50:41 GMT -6
I know I'm not buying any of their patterned shirts, or their shirts in general, so it doesn't matter all that much to me whether they fix it or not. I don't expect many of you guys to purchase as well, so I don't know what the reason for this to be brought up over and over again is, or what is trying to be accomplished. It's 100% only done to piss you off. There can be no other reason. |
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Post by devastitis on Jan 29, 2016 13:04:27 GMT -6
I know I'm not buying any of their patterned shirts, or their shirts in general, so it doesn't matter all that much to me whether they fix it or not. I don't expect many of you guys to purchase as well, so I don't know what the reason for this to be brought up over and over again is, or what is trying to be accomplished. It's 100% only done to piss you off. There can be no other reason. Probably. Besides get people who didn't notice it before want to trash their wardrobe, that is. I started noticing it on other people's flannels, my Jcrew shirts, and all over the place. It's a curse. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2016 14:22:20 GMT -6
stinky -- ah but therein lies the rub. Gustin doesn't manufacture anything so it's not a process they have any control over. Not a process they have direct control over...but it has been a point of confusion to many for a while now how they seem to be completely at the mercy of the 'factory'. I'd assume they have some language about quality and service level agreements in their contract. They ultimately stick with this place and seem ok stitching their name into some of these atrocities. |
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Post by bentin on Jan 29, 2016 14:29:39 GMT -6
stinky -- ah but therein lies the rub. Gustin doesn't manufacture anything so it's not a process they have any control over. Not a process they have direct control over...but it has been a point of confusion to many for a while now how they seem to be completely at the mercy of the 'factory'. I'd assume they have some language about quality and service level agreements in their contract. They ultimately stick with this place and seem ok stitching their name into some of these atrocities. I'm less and less convinced that Gustin receives items back at Gustin World Headquarters before they're shipped out. I suspect the sewer ships completed items, or some agnostic middle man. Nothing saves money like skipping QC. They survive on a liberal refund/credit policy and good back end communication. It sure would be more appealing if they did a little front end QC too. |
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Post by stinky on Jan 29, 2016 14:41:28 GMT -6
Less time drinking, smoking cigars, and designing underwear; more time scrutinizing their subcontractor's work.
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Post by bentin on Jan 29, 2016 14:46:05 GMT -6
Less time drinking, smoking cigars, and designing underwear; more time scrutinizing their subcontractor's work. Or just go all Roman on this bitch and buy a Harley and stop fulfilling orders all together. |
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Post by librarianbuckle on Jan 29, 2016 15:29:11 GMT -6
I'm less and less convinced that Gustin receives items back at Gustin World Headquarters before they're shipped out. I suspect the sewer ships completed items, or some agnostic middle man. I think back in the day they confirmed this - the sew shop packages up the product without Gustin seeing it, IIRC. I'm pretty sure they just select the fabric to be made into a garment and let their subcontractor take care of the rest. On a semi-related note (to their hands off approach), I was going to buy a chore coat but I wanted to know the shoulder-shoulder measurement. They said they didn't know and couldn't find out. I thought it was strange that the designer couldn't determine a measurement for a garment they designed. |
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Post by bentin on Jan 29, 2016 15:31:50 GMT -6
I'm less and less convinced that Gustin receives items back at Gustin World Headquarters before they're shipped out. I suspect the sewer ships completed items, or some agnostic middle man. I think back in the day they confirmed this - the sew shop packages up the product without Gustin seeing it, IIRC. I'm pretty sure they just select the fabric to be made into a garment and let their subcontractor take care of the rest. On a semi-related note (to their hands off approach), I was going to buy a chore coat but I wanted to know the shoulder-shoulder measurement. They said they didn't know and couldn't find out. I thought it was strange that the designer couldn't determine a measurement for a garment they designed. Ha, nice. Seem like they could at least grab the Roledex and get you the sew shop number. |
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Post by stinky on Jan 29, 2016 15:39:51 GMT -6
I'm less and less convinced that Gustin receives items back at Gustin World Headquarters before they're shipped out. I suspect the sewer ships completed items, or some agnostic middle man. I think back in the day they confirmed this - the sew shop packages up the product without Gustin seeing it, IIRC. I'm pretty sure they just select the fabric to be made into a garment and let their subcontractor take care of the rest. On a semi-related note (to their hands off approach), I was going to buy a chore coat but I wanted to know the shoulder-shoulder measurement. They said they didn't know and couldn't find out. I thought it was strange that the designer couldn't determine a measurement for a garment they designed. Check out my chore coat post from over a year ago: selvedgestyle.com/post/12269/thread |
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Post by librarianbuckle on Jan 29, 2016 15:51:22 GMT -6
"they didn't have any in the office to measure" Haha that's exactly what he told me! |
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Post by stinky on Jan 29, 2016 16:00:52 GMT -6
I tried to buy a Volvo the other day, and the dealer told me he didn't have any to test drive and I'd need to go to Sweden to do that . . .
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Post by Griffin on Jan 30, 2016 3:09:30 GMT -6
..while in Sweden you ate so many shrimp-sandwiches so you had to get an XC90 just to get you back. Nicely done!
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