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Post by whiskeyriver on Jul 24, 2015 20:37:19 GMT -6
Hah..I never thought about wearing a shirt to and from work haha. GOod idea!
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Jul 24, 2015 23:58:15 GMT -6
Hah..I never thought about wearing a shirt to and from work haha. GOod idea! Is that still considered a work shirt lol |
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Post by exophobe on Jul 25, 2015 0:40:37 GMT -6
Hah..I never thought about wearing a shirt to and from work haha. GOod idea! Is that still considered a work shirt lol You guys are a bunch of denim wearin' Mr Rogers's. Just be sure to whistle while you change into your denim outfit to develop those fades. |
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Post by Griffin on Jul 25, 2015 1:15:22 GMT -6
I support this as well. I've got a western shirt from The Flat Head and I take it with me any time I drive my GFs G35 stick. I also caught myself doing arm extensions at a red light. Fadestrubation is a bitch of a habit. So much shame. That shirt is going to be sick in a year or two though. lol. I will also wear them around the house if I'm chilling, playing video games or whatever. I'm such a nerd. Dude my lawless h-bone shirt is my bloodborne coat! |
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Post by devastitis on Jul 27, 2015 15:28:13 GMT -6
You will not be getting the supima orders. He couldnt get the loom operating properly so it will not be produced. He had a 22oz backup denim on order from Japan to fill those if he couldnt get the loom going but I doubt he can afford the denim now as Japanese mills require cash on hand unless Pacific Blue prepaid and credited it to Roman. So do hold your breath This is absolutely tragic... The Supima would have been so amazing.  indigobryce about what % of a chance would you give the Supima? Do you think there is any way that LD could recover? It certainly is tragic. I was hoping long ago that RA would wake the f* up, swallow his pride, and let a competent business manager handle operations, but all the good will, potential, and money has now been completely wasted. |
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Post by davelewis on Jul 27, 2015 15:39:18 GMT -6
It certainly is tragic, but undoubtedly shows how delusional he is.
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Jul 27, 2015 20:32:04 GMT -6
You will not be getting the supima orders. He couldnt get the loom operating properly so it will not be produced. He had a 22oz backup denim on order from Japan to fill those if he couldnt get the loom going but I doubt he can afford the denim now as Japanese mills require cash on hand unless Pacific Blue prepaid and credited it to Roman. So do hold your breath This is absolutely tragic... The Supima would have been so amazing. indigobryce about what % of a chance would you give the Supima? Do you think there is any way that LD could recover? The Supima thing was a real long shot and that alone was borderline criminal in my eyes. He was so far from that being a reality when i was there so i just cant believe it was even possible. U have to understand those machines have never woven a thing for him. That means he would need to dial in those machines to actually weave a good enough fabric let alone they were not working when i left (maybe 1 machine worked). Imagine each machine would weave different denims because they were all different types of machines. Different machines means different tweaking and outcomes. SOOOO Far from the truth and in my eyes the epitome of how baad he was. Also as Bryce stated, he had a back up denim made in Japan to fill those orders just in case. That alone is lying to your customers because u are selling it as the 1st American made fabric of 20+ oz |
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Jul 27, 2015 20:32:54 GMT -6
He pre sold something he couldnt even guarantee. I would say thats as bad as it gets.
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Post by beeranddenim on Jul 27, 2015 20:35:34 GMT -6
And...That's not fraud? That's more than incompetence. At a minimum maybe the Supima buyers have a case
If Tesla initially said they were going to make motors from the finest American copper mill , then never did, but 30,000 people ordered cars, that would probably be a lawsuit.
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Jul 27, 2015 20:46:18 GMT -6
And...That's not fraud? That's more than incompetence. At a minimum maybe the Supima buyers have a case If Tesla initially said they were going to make motors from the finest American copper mill , then never did, but 30,000 people ordered cars, that would probably be a lawsuit. I left knowing I wouldnt have a job lined up. I left knowing that meant my family would struggle without that minimal income. That has to say something for I believed it to be that bad, i risked my families comfort because of what i witnessed. |
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Post by devastitis on Jul 27, 2015 23:50:46 GMT -6
And...That's not fraud? That's more than incompetence. At a minimum maybe the Supima buyers have a case If Tesla initially said they were going to make motors from the finest American copper mill , then never did, but 30,000 people ordered cars, that would probably be a lawsuit. I don't think anyone thinks some fraud wasn't involved. But to prove it is a whole different matter. It'll take more than just the testimony of a few disgruntled ex-employees to prove fraud. I remember talking to wisdom and univibe88 early during the LD days of this possibly being a giant ponzi scheme. Sales to bring capital in to pay for previous sales, and that there could possibly be a collapse if the sales continued. Looks right from the surface that it became and was outright fraud, but to actually prove it's more than crazy insane incompetence is difficult. |
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Post by beeranddenim on Jul 28, 2015 8:49:42 GMT -6
Agreed proving is difficult. Just a counterpoint to the occasional comments here that chalk it up to gross incompetence but seem to defend the notion there's wasn't intentional fraudulent activity.
Of course I have no proof.
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Post by brentkuz on Jul 29, 2015 8:25:29 GMT -6
And...That's not fraud? That's more than incompetence. At a minimum maybe the Supima buyers have a case If Tesla initially said they were going to make motors from the finest American copper mill , then never did, but 30,000 people ordered cars, that would probably be a lawsuit. - I like where your head is at but remember we are talking about a business that was set up as legitimate and just failed. For a grand jury to indict on this would be very very hard and I doubt would fly. It seems like it was a horrible business and was ran by ownership that had no clue about profit margins. As for the tesla comment. Look at twentieth century motor company and their car the "Dale". That business was set up for no other reason but to be a front to scam money. That is criminal. Pretty sure this was just a bad business but not a criminal one. |
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Post by julian on Jul 29, 2015 9:22:11 GMT -6
I like where your head is at but remember we are talking about a business that was set up as legitimate and just failed. For a grand jury to indict on this would be very very hard and I doubt would fly. It seems like it was a horrible business and was ran by ownership that had no clue about profit margins. This is a guy who has been selling his company's products at less than it costs him to make them. He's not some criminals mastermind, more a hapless and rather delusional dreamer who appeared to think things could happen based purely on the fact that he'd like them to. |
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Jul 29, 2015 15:17:41 GMT -6
I like where your head is at but remember we are talking about a business that was set up as legitimate and just failed. For a grand jury to indict on this would be very very hard and I doubt would fly. It seems like it was a horrible business and was ran by ownership that had no clue about profit margins. This is a guy who has been selling his company's products at less than it costs him to make them. He's not some criminals mastermind, more a hapless and rather delusional dreamer who appeared to think things could happen based purely on the fact that he'd like them to. He really was delusional but trust me we told him many a time it wasn't close to what we needed to turn a profit let alone break even. If someone refuses to actually hear the truth or decides to not add things up, Is that not an aware business man. I believe Roman to be a guy who definitely shy's away from knowing the bad but trust me he knew it was coming down to the wire because he finally admitted it to us in a meeting. Shortly after that I left and thats when he came out with the worm woven , sky diver weaved denim that would be dyed by licking the indigo onto the 24oz American/Japanese denim sewn by using the stinger of a 100 year old killer bee riding a cafe racer bike with no helmet. At what point does he go from uninformed to informed to the realities of his previous lack of competent decisions? |
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Post by indigobryce on Jul 29, 2015 16:31:58 GMT -6
You will not be getting the supima orders. He couldnt get the loom operating properly so it will not be produced. He had a 22oz backup denim on order from Japan to fill those if he couldnt get the loom going but I doubt he can afford the denim now as Japanese mills require cash on hand unless Pacific Blue prepaid and credited it to Roman. So do hold your breath This is absolutely tragic... The Supima would have been so amazing. indigobryce about what % of a chance would you give the Supima? Do you think there is any way that LD could recover? I would say none. He was only really having preliminary meetings with supima when he released all the info about it. None of the looms where fully operational, we had the one at the phoenix location and it was barely running as it has only been wired to turn on by his brother (an electrician) but nothing else. It would turn on and move but nothing had been tuned or properly repaired. He told me he had already sent out the first cotton to be rope dyed but I cant substantiate anything on that as everything was word of mouth. In April he was down to the last of his money and struggling heavily trying to figure out a solution. We had some real heart to heart sit down meetings and came in the next day and nothing had changed, we went for ramen and he spoke very frankly about how the business needed a revival plan, we worked on one and then absolutely nothing came of it. We came back in to business as usual with roman sitting on his laptop downstairs or watching bad daytime TV in his office vaping away the precious hours he could have used to save his company. I doubt we will be seeing anything from Lawless or RA anytime soon. If someone is stupid enough to invest in him again than he will be fine. I actually think there is a good investment opportunity in American Selvedge Co if someone made a clause in the contract to just send Roman a check in the mail and keep him very far away from operations. He has a knack with people which is how he got his hands on the looms in the first place. He owns something not everyone does. 12 draper X3 looms are a hard thing to find and knowing him thats his last bargaining chip so youd have to pry them from his cold dead fingers. So I think it could be possible if a smart business man came in and offered him a deal he couldnt refuse with the purpose of keeping him out of the business....but I dont think he would take it. The dream is still alive somewhere. Denial is a strong drug. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2015 18:19:31 GMT -6
We know that he has at least one partner in AS already. It sounds like it's just a matter of time before the courts force a liquidation.
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Post by brentkuz on Jul 29, 2015 18:23:43 GMT -6
This is absolutely tragic... The Supima would have been so amazing. indigobryce about what % of a chance would you give the Supima? Do you think there is any way that LD could recover? I would say none. He was only really having preliminary meetings with supima when he released all the info about it. None of the looms where fully operational, we had the one at the phoenix location and it was barely running as it has only been wired to turn on by his brother (an electrician) but nothing else. It would turn on and move but nothing had been tuned or properly repaired. He told me he had already sent out the first cotton to be rope dyed but I cant substantiate anything on that as everything was word of mouth. In April he was down to the last of his money and struggling heavily trying to figure out a solution. We had some real heart to heart sit down meetings and came in the next day and nothing had changed, we went for ramen and he spoke very frankly about how the business needed a revival plan, we worked on one and then absolutely nothing came of it. We came back in to business as usual with roman sitting on his laptop downstairs or watching bad daytime TV in his office vaping away the precious hours he could have used to save his company. I doubt we will be seeing anything from Lawless or RA anytime soon. If someone is stupid enough to invest in him again than he will be fine. I actually think there is a good investment opportunity in American Selvedge Co if someone made a clause in the contract to just send Roman a check in the mail and keep him very far away from operations. He has a knack with people which is how he got his hands on the looms in the first place. He owns something not everyone does. 12 draper X3 looms are a hard thing to find and knowing him thats his last bargaining chip so youd have to pry them from his cold dead fingers. So I think it could be possible if a smart business man came in and offered him a deal he couldnt refuse with the purpose of keeping him out of the business....but I dont think he would take it. The dream is still alive somewhere. Denial is a strong drug. Problem is if he is struggling money wise and has loans out that he can not repay....those looms won't be his much longer. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2015 20:36:18 GMT -6
Draper looms are not that rare. Think of the multiple thousands that were still in use not all that long ago. Many of the mills just closed the doors and left everything inside. I easily found a seller with 14, X3s. Much harder to find qualified operators and repairmen. If RA thinks he has gold in them, he is delusional.
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Post by beeranddenim on Jul 30, 2015 0:11:02 GMT -6
Couldn't we pressure his vendors, investor, etc?
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Post by brentkuz on Jul 30, 2015 4:49:33 GMT -6
Couldn't we pressure his vendors, investor, etc? Were there investors? Partners? Does he have any small business loans? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 10:25:14 GMT -6
Couldn't we pressure his vendors, investor, etc? Were there investors? Partners? Does he have any small business loans? I don't remember seeing any other owners of record for LD. If he owes vendors I'm sure they are after him and he is likely paying them just enough to keep out of court. All this comes back to the idea that the only real recourse available is small claims suits. Even then he could stretch it out and deliver the goods or refund before court. He is buying time currently hoping to weather the storm. |
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Post by variable on Aug 1, 2015 13:26:33 GMT -6
So I suppose I ought to review my jeans from Lawless. The fit is fantastic, the construction had no problems. Right out of the package, they were probably the best fitting pair of selvage I've ever owned, so whomever cut and sewed them, you done did a good job. But I doubt they are the 13oz Candiani that I ordered, since they feel a heck of a lot lighter than that, maybe 10-11oz. It's such a shame that Lawless imploded. If they had been run responsibly, I'd buy more of them. The mystery denim! Anyone know what it is? It looked a lot gray-er when I first got it (before I washed it), if that helps.  |
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Post by matt on Aug 1, 2015 15:14:57 GMT -6
So I suppose I ought to review my jeans from Lawless. The fit is fantastic, the construction had no problems. Right out of the package, they were probably the best fitting pair of selvage I've ever owned, so whomever cut and sewed them, you done did a good job. But I doubt they are the 13oz Candiani that I ordered, since they feel a heck of a lot lighter than that, maybe 10-11oz. It's such a shame that Lawless imploded. If they had been run responsibly, I'd buy more of them. The mystery denim! Anyone know what it is? It looked a lot gray-er when I first got it (before I washed it), if that helps. I think Dirty_Denim can confirm that it is the Candiani denim. I have a shirt in that fabric (and sold off the matching Canadian Tux jeans to match). I think it is 13 oz. Sal and I had a conversation on this - It does feel lighter but not all fabrics are going to be super distinctive all sewn up. Considering that denim weight is just the weight of 1 yard of fabric (maybe it's a mismeasured run of fabric?)...then again, consider the source. |
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Post by variable on Aug 1, 2015 15:27:35 GMT -6
Well it's good that I actually got what I ordered, then. Can't blame me for being skeptical, what with all the people getting the "hey we're out of stock..." lines.
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