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Post by Dirty_Denim on Jul 21, 2015 17:14:38 GMT -6
Again I'll ask. Did some of this cross over from incompetence to fraudulent, criminal activity? Tough to not think it did BUT he always thought he would recover. basically take this to cover that so that he could keep things going. He must have thought its better to make sure the brand stays open then to admit fail and shut it down. I understand his thinking but its the same thing when u take money from a cash register with thought to pay it back b4 nobody notices it |
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Post by variable on Jul 21, 2015 17:44:04 GMT -6
Steven Seagal or this Van Damme bugger for Roman ... their acting is a perfect match to R's business sense .... Sal, so you're planning to trash the joint? Segal is PERFECT. Ignore my Nicholas Cage comment. What if it's this Nick Cage?  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2015 18:08:04 GMT -6
Not the bees!
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Post by devastitis on Jul 21, 2015 18:18:38 GMT -6
Segal is PERFECT. Ignore my Nicholas Cage comment. What if it's this Nick Cage? Only if it's this Nicolas Cage:  |
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Post by davelewis on Jul 21, 2015 18:23:24 GMT -6
Again I'll ask. Did some of this cross over from incompetence to fraudulent, criminal activity? Tough to not think it did BUT he always thought he would recover. basically take this to cover that so that he could keep things going. He must have thought its better to make sure the brand stays open then to admit fail and shut it down. I understand his thinking but its the same thing when u take money from a cash register with thought to pay it back b4 nobody notices it Sounds like someone without a basis in reality. I like your cash register analogy, but would call that stealing, good intentions or not! |
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Post by wisdom on Jul 21, 2015 19:07:19 GMT -6
Again I'll ask. Did some of this cross over from incompetence to fraudulent, criminal activity? Tough to not think it did BUT he always thought he would recover. basically take this to cover that so that he could keep things going. He must have thought its better to make sure the brand stays open then to admit fail and shut it down. I understand his thinking but its the same thing when u take money from a cash register with thought to pay it back b4 nobody notices it He may have reached the point where his assets are outweighed by his liabilities. He'll have to find cash or product to bring his obligations down and, if I were in his situation, I'd start with offloading finished goods (RTW - which he's doing), then start selling off unused denim rolls and using the money to either repay customers or unpaid vendors, then unused equipment (Draper Looms).. if he still can't maintain a viable business after all of this, he'll be forced to liquidate. Launching another Kickstarter (which I'm sure has crossed his mind) or another sale (which has probably also crossed his mind) would only buy them a little time and attract a deluge of criticism. He also needs to rebrand himself somehow, as he's basically shot his reputation as a low-cost/high-quality denim manufacturer. I don't think he has the discipline to implement a limited wait-list/supply/demand thing I suggested months ago, and as much as this would provide fodder for all of us here, I'd suggest he raise prices.. like huge.. and go sell his stuff in a market that appreciates exclusivity.. if he wants to be the Ferrari of denim, really go be the Ferrari of denim. Tell them it'll take three months to make custom jeans that cost 5x more than even Ironhearts.. limit orders to like 25-100 per week or something (you guys can pump out five pairs of custom garments a day, can't you?) and kill it on quality.. I mean KILL it. God.. this is so infuriating.. |
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Jul 21, 2015 19:33:14 GMT -6
Tough to not think it did BUT he always thought he would recover. basically take this to cover that so that he could keep things going. He must have thought its better to make sure the brand stays open then to admit fail and shut it down. I understand his thinking but its the same thing when u take money from a cash register with thought to pay it back b4 nobody notices it He may have reached the point where his assets are outweighed by his liabilities. He'll have to find cash or product to bring his obligations down and, if I were in his situation, I'd start with offloading finished goods (RTW - which he's doing), then start selling off unused denim rolls and using the money to either repay customers or unpaid vendors, then unused equipment (Draper Looms).. if he still can't maintain a viable business after all of this, he'll be forced to liquidate. Launching another Kickstarter (which I'm sure has crossed his mind) or another sale (which has probably also crossed his mind) would only buy them a little time and attract a deluge of criticism. He also needs to rebrand himself somehow, as he's basically shot his reputation as a low-cost/high-quality denim manufacturer. I don't think he has the discipline to implement a limited wait-list/supply/demand thing I suggested months ago, and as much as this would provide fodder for all of us here, I'd suggest he raise prices.. like huge.. and go sell his stuff in a market that appreciates exclusivity.. if he wants to be the Ferrari of denim, really go be the Ferrari of denim. Tell them it'll take three months to make custom jeans that cost 5x more than even Ironhearts.. limit orders to like 25-100 per week or something (you guys can pump out five pairs of custom garments a day, can't you?) and kill it on quality.. I mean KILL it. God.. this is so infuriating.. You are describing discipline which may be one of his most difficult things to follow. |
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Post by whiskeyriver on Jul 21, 2015 20:54:04 GMT -6
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Post by julian on Jul 22, 2015 2:57:29 GMT -6
drstrange, I would caution against any ideas of launching a stealth raid to rescue "completed" items and then paying again to post them, especially overseas. From what we've seen here, for every made-to-spec item, about 5 or 10 seem to have issues of one sort or another, ranging from maybe acceptable wrong thread or buttons right up to wrong material, wrong size or the classic no buttons at all. By the time you pay additional postage and maybe customs fees etc, you might be better investing that in a real brand that gives you what you want within a few days. I'd second this. We could potentially end up paying almost twice the cost of the jeans for the double shipping costs... only to receive unwearable clothing. Also, the legal waters would be very muddy for any individual who grabbed and shipped a load of packages that weren't their property. |
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Post by indigobryce on Jul 22, 2015 16:19:45 GMT -6
He may have reached the point where his assets are outweighed by his liabilities. He'll have to find cash or product to bring his obligations down and, if I were in his situation, I'd start with offloading finished goods (RTW - which he's doing), then start selling off unused denim rolls and using the money to either repay customers or unpaid vendors, then unused equipment (Draper Looms).. if he still can't maintain a viable business after all of this, he'll be forced to liquidate. Launching another Kickstarter (which I'm sure has crossed his mind) or another sale (which has probably also crossed his mind) would only buy them a little time and attract a deluge of criticism. He also needs to rebrand himself somehow, as he's basically shot his reputation as a low-cost/high-quality denim manufacturer. I don't think he has the discipline to implement a limited wait-list/supply/demand thing I suggested months ago, and as much as this would provide fodder for all of us here, I'd suggest he raise prices.. like huge.. and go sell his stuff in a market that appreciates exclusivity.. if he wants to be the Ferrari of denim, really go be the Ferrari of denim. Tell them it'll take three months to make custom jeans that cost 5x more than even Ironhearts.. limit orders to like 25-100 per week or something (you guys can pump out five pairs of custom garments a day, can't you?) and kill it on quality.. I mean KILL it. God.. this is so infuriating.. You are describing discipline which may be one of his most difficult things to follow. This discipline you speak of is funny to me. He used to always tout his discipline in Yoga and meditation to me like he was some sort of wise old sage but generally Id just have myself a giggle watching him step away from his failing business not knowing anything going on in his facility while being upstairs watching daytime court TV or some other garbage TV show on a couch drinking boba he spent 3 business hours to drive to Tempe to get. |
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Post by jjflash on Jul 22, 2015 17:21:29 GMT -6
Review of my "Limited Edition" 15.2 Cone Mills Selvedge Denim Jeans... Purchased these from the Surplus section of the website on 6/29, received today, 7/22. The cost was $25 plus $10 shipping. I bought a 34/35 The good: Well, the best part is, they fit. This was my biggest concern. Waist is right around 33" using the Gustin method. I haven't measured everything else, but they seem fine to me--it's a slim straight fit. I'm good. Yay. Construction is ok--everything looks pretty straight but I don't see some of the details I've seen on other people's Lawless jeans. Hmmm. That's strange. The bad/weird: I did notice on the website that the jeans in the picture didn't have a patch. I guess they forgot to put put one on. Ooops! Anyway, mine does have an LD&Co patch that will likely just be a plain leather patch after the first wash. It's sewn all the way around which isnt a big deal to me, but I know they were doing them differently before. Oh yeah, sort of a minor thing, there was this tag inside the jeans:  WHAAAT?? Well, I guess this shines a little light on things, doesn't it? I should also point out that only the top button is a Lawless button, the rest are just plain metal. And that canvas you see there that the tag is sewn to is lined around the wasteband and actually a pretty cool feature. Verdict: I wanted a pair of $25 jeans to knock around/beat the hell out of and I feel pretty good about the jeans for that. Uncovering another piece of the Lawless Mystery is priceless. I'll try to post more pics of the jeans later. |
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Post by univibe88 on Jul 22, 2015 17:29:04 GMT -6
I don't know what is weirder - the people vs west tag or the fact it is tagged 29.
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Post by jjflash on Jul 22, 2015 18:02:22 GMT -6
I don't know what is weirder - the people vs west tag or the fact it is tagged 29. My best guess is that the factory Roman uses in LA had these People vs West jeans sitting around and Roman slapped his patch on them and sold them. AND, maybe a People vs West 29 was really a 33"-ish waist, vanity sizing and all that. I dunno, maybe roman can come answer our questions on the matter. |
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Jul 22, 2015 18:03:25 GMT -6
Review of my "Limited Edition" 15.2 Cone Mills Selvedge Denim Jeans... Purchased these from the Surplus section of the website on 6/29, received today, 7/22. The cost was $25 plus $10 shipping. I bought a 34/35 The good: Well, the best part is, they fit. This was my biggest concern. Waist is right around 33" using the Gustin method. I haven't measured everything else, but they seem fine to me--it's a slim straight fit. I'm good. Yay. Construction is ok--everything looks pretty straight but I don't see some of the details I've seen on other people's Lawless jeans. Hmmm. That's strange. The bad/weird: I did notice on the website that the jeans in the picture didn't have a patch. I guess they forgot to put put one on. Ooops! Anyway, mine does have an LD&Co patch that will likely just be a plain leather patch after the first wash. It's sewn all the way around which isnt a big deal to me, but I know they were doing them differently before. Oh yeah, sort of a minor thing, there was this tag inside the jeans: WHAAAT?? Well, I guess this shines a little light on things, doesn't it? I should also point out that only the top button is a Lawless button, the rest are just plain metal. And that canvas you see there that the tag is sewn to is lined around the wasteband and actually a pretty cool feature. Verdict: I wanted a pair of $25 jeans to knock around/beat the hell out of and I feel pretty good about the jeans for that. Uncovering another piece of the Lawless Mystery is priceless. I'll try to post more pics of the jeans later. Oh i know this very well. People Vs West were another brand Roman had his hands on. These were being sold on ebay by the way and are right here lol www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xpeople+vs+west+jeans.TRS0.G%7C1%7C0&_nkw=people+vs+west+jeans&_sacat=0 |
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Jul 22, 2015 18:13:48 GMT -6
Let me correct something, I first saw this brand via my working with Roman. I do NOT know what was his involvement with these but he was somehow. Also the ebay sellers are def not him
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Post by Winterland on Jul 22, 2015 18:36:04 GMT -6
I don't know what is weirder - the people vs west tag or the fact it is tagged 29. My best guess is that the factory Roman uses in LA had these People vs West jeans sitting around and Roman slapped his patch on them and sold them. AND, maybe a People vs West 29 was really a 33"-ish waist, vanity sizing and all that. I dunno, maybe roman can come answer our questions on the matter. This is strange. Now if they had a Gustin tag then things would really be in the Twilight Zone.  |
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Post by whiskeyriver on Jul 22, 2015 23:34:58 GMT -6
This just keeps getting curiouser and curiouser. Haha.
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Post by bruns on Jul 23, 2015 2:35:27 GMT -6
I'm wearing a pair of PvsW jeans right now that I picked up from eBay a few months back for $60. The guy that was selling them had 50+ pairs and was also selling various quantities of Cone denim. I have no idea why, but I assume the company had some debt and sold off a lot of stock. One thing that struck me when looking at the Lawless site is that the design of their jeans- IE the details- are IDENTICAL to the jeans I'm wearing. Have a look here: People vs West (16.7oz), scroll down to view the images: www.ebay.com/itm/People-vs-West-Selvedge-Denim-Jeans-Made-in-USA-Cone-Mills-White-Oak-16-7oz-/131476774128LD&Co 15.2oz: ldandco.us/collections/surplus/products/15-2-oz-cone-selvedge-jean?variant=2920805891Other than the leather patch that has been removed and the mysterious loss of 1.5oz (no idea) they are identical. It really wouldn't surprise me if, as stated above, the jeans have just been purchased at bulk and (somewhat) 'rebranded'. Also, yeah they are vanity sized a fair bit. |
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Post by wdw on Jul 23, 2015 2:48:36 GMT -6
bruns, this guy selling a load of gear cheap wasn't our friend from Phoenix, by any chance? Nothing would surprise me in this soap opera.
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Post by bruns on Jul 23, 2015 3:50:06 GMT -6
bruns, this guy selling a load of gear cheap wasn't our friend from Phoenix, by any chance? Nothing would surprise me in this soap opera. Says the item was in LA, so I guess not. This was a good few months ago though as I said, most likely they just bought off the old stock. |
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Post by beeranddenim on Jul 23, 2015 10:20:37 GMT -6
And that's not fraudulent?
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Post by ickes on Jul 23, 2015 11:17:31 GMT -6
I love tuning in here every day...lol...the saga continues...you couldn't make this shit up.
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Jul 23, 2015 11:27:50 GMT -6
None of those ebay sellers are Roman, thats a definite. I know this for sure.
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Post by jjflash on Jul 23, 2015 12:04:48 GMT -6
I really HOPE that Roman paid $50/pair for those jeans and then sold them for $25.
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Jul 23, 2015 17:07:11 GMT -6
My Niphon Menpu 15 oz beige wefts are holding up great. I have washed em a lot since holding out for 3 or so months before i put them in water. I love the fade u get from the shell stitch on the fly   |
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