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Post by indigobryce on Jul 21, 2015 1:21:10 GMT -6
If Gustin were running a mill in China producing fabric that rivals Japanese mills, I don't know if they'd keep it a secret. But anyway, can we stop lumping Gustin in with the Lawless failures? I have a lot of stuff from this company that is really good stuff, and know a lot of others here do as well. They may not be the best company selling denim out there, but they've done a lot of really cool stuff. I don't understand why liking other brands has to be at the expense of liking Gustin. We all know there are companies getting superior denim milled for them, but there is some great stuff that Gustin releases despite their stubbornness in design. If you're really curious about the mills making their fabrics, keep your eyes open, and you'll see that they're using several Japanese mills. Dude come on everyone has been asking for the mills since the inception of Gustin. It's nice to know exactly where you're product is coming from. I find it strange when companies will stress one aspect of the brand and keep another one on the DL or secrete. Gustin loves how they are made in the USA and San Fran but won't say the mill the fabric is from. Benrus touts american heritage but are made overseas with foreign parts. And Levis....all about american heritage but when it was profitable moved jobs overseas and increases profit margins. I am all for capitalism but I hate the false advertising these american companies spit out. Fashion, cars, food. They all are deceptive. Healthy food when it's a bunch of crap, american heritage when it's overseas made, and same with cars. Ford american tough and it's mostly produced somewhere else. If I'm buying a cheap pack of Hanes boxers I don't care where they are made same goes for like boot socks. Something has always been odd with the lack of mills. I suspected they were buying discount jobber denim and the history was just unknown or how these zombie denims keep popping up. Maybe they don't tell us all the mills because they don't know. I wouldnt say there is anything wrong with saying you dont know. Because if you buy short rolls from jobbers its very often that you simply get no more information than weight taken by the dealer and color. Neither parties want to guess. If they dont know, its probably how they got the denim so cheap per yard thusly passing savings on to you. If you want denim pedigree buy from a mill, not the pound. Sometimes you find cool gems, but often its second hand with a lot of waste and issues. |
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Post by julian on Jul 21, 2015 3:33:12 GMT -6
Take their best guess on weight and mill and send it out. So this isnt a Lawless only problem. I've long since thought this has been happening. As most people tend to buy < 5 or 6 pairs of jeans it's essentially impossible to really know whether the ones claimed to be 14oz are different, or the same as, the pair next to them that are claimed to be 15oz. After all, who is going to actually cut their jeans into a square yard of fabric and weigh them at any point? The more jeans you buy, the more you start to realise that many of the ounces weight claims are, to be polite, 'ballpark'. |
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Post by Griffin on Jul 21, 2015 3:49:19 GMT -6
This has been noticed many times and I have seen posts like "hey this 14oz feels thicker then my 15oz".
I did think stuff from PBD was korrect tho.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2015 7:40:29 GMT -6
Take their best guess on weight and mill and send it out. So this isnt a Lawless only problem. I've long since thought this has been happening. As most people tend to buy < 5 or 6 pairs of jeans it's essentially impossible to really know whether the ones claimed to be 14oz are different, or the same as, the pair next to them that are claimed to be 15oz. After all, who is going to actually cut their jeans into a square yard of fabric and weigh them at any point? The more jeans you buy, the more you start to realise that many of the ounces weight claims are, to be polite, 'ballpark'. i'd say it's a ballpark with most fabrics...a way to assign a measurement relative to other fabrics. there may be some initial weighing that takes place during initial production, but if that's done on a level more gross than a yard than you're already getting fuzzy after scaling and rounding to the nearest ounce takes place. if the measurements are done in a true raw state than sanforization or any other processing likely changes that value as well. to me denim weight has always been a 'grain of salt' value |
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Post by julian on Jul 21, 2015 8:09:43 GMT -6
to me denim weight has always been a 'grain of salt' value Agreed. It probably doesn't help matters that heavier denim is (generally) perceived as being worth more, so the temptation for mills, wholesalers and end vendors all to 'round up' certain numbers must be strong. |
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Post by drstrange on Jul 21, 2015 8:15:23 GMT -6
thanks Bryce for sharing your insight views on LD and Denim-"Made in USA" in general ...
actually your posts make me think to either go back to sales - Levis, Nudies whatever kind of junk or do the next step and fancy the reputed high-priced japanese brands (having had business dealings with Japan for years, as a general thought I tend to trust them more than any other nation on this planet) ....
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Post by devastitis on Jul 21, 2015 8:28:16 GMT -6
So who do you think will play Roman in the movie? Sal, do you have any preferences for who will play you? I already have the tagline: "In a world, where denim is everything........you may have to give up.....everything" "...and not receive anything." |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2015 8:55:55 GMT -6
indigobryce with a slight hope for shirts... Can you speak on the heavy wool fabric that was offered/sold?
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Post by julian on Jul 21, 2015 9:02:56 GMT -6
Moreover what about the orders which are out of stock (like the Niphon Menpu Brown weft) ? I'm in the same boat as you with the Nihon Menpu and, frankly, I don't expect to see any jeans at all now. Would love to be proven wrong but I just don't see it happening. They never responded to my email response to their email regarding the fabric being out of stock and there's been no sign that there will be any further communication from them of any kind. The fact that we now know shipping has been held up simply because of the costs involved in shipping items bodes even less well for those of us outside of the US. |
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Jul 21, 2015 11:04:06 GMT -6
So who do you think will play Roman in the movie? Sal, do you have any preferences for who will play you? I already have the tagline: "In a world, where denim is everything........you may have to give up.....everything" Id say Johnny Depp for Roman but he would use the character from Charlie & the Chocolate Factory. I would be played by Arnold Schwarzenegger with the tag line "Ill be back" |
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Post by Griffin on Jul 21, 2015 11:25:48 GMT -6
can I be that little robot in starwars that enters and says "ba-bweep" and then goes away fast and is never seen again. Its my favourite character of the trilogy.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2015 11:37:56 GMT -6
So who do you think will play Roman in the movie? Sal, do you have any preferences for who will play you? I already have the tagline: "In a world, where denim is everything........you may have to give up.....everything" Id say Johnny Depp for Roman but he would use the character from Charlie & the Chocolate Factory. I would be played by Arnold Schwarzenegger with the tag line "Ill be back" Johnny Depp is way too cool for Roman, even in chocolate factory character. How about someone more fitting. Someone like Nicholas Cage would be better. Someone who has the trying too hard vibe. Also, your Arnold suggestion is good but man, he's getting older. Plus you need a guy with that New York edge. Also, any motorcycle related stuff should come directly from "Ichiban Moto" on youtube. That guy, whoever he is, takes the piss on the Cafe scene in a really subtle way. He's so good at it that he makes me cringe at times thinking of a younger me. |
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Post by drstrange on Jul 21, 2015 11:39:55 GMT -6
Moreover what about the orders which are out of stock (like the Niphon Menpu Brown weft) ? I'm in the same boat as you with the Nihon Menpu and, frankly, I don't expect to see any jeans at all now. Would love to be proven wrong but I just don't see it happening. They never responded to my email response to their email regarding the fabric being out of stock and there's been no sign that there will be any further communication from them of any kind. The fact that we now know shipping has been held up simply because of the costs involved in shipping items bodes even less well for those of us outside of the US. question is, where the stuff is (if it's actually done ...) ... if it's in Phoenix, maybe someone on this forum could grab those items and send them to Europe (on a pre-pay basis of course) ... I know I paid a hefty USD 100 for shipping to LD already, but I would definitely be on the boat, trying to mitigate my loss - would have to be a seasoned forista from here, no way I'm gonna pay one more penny to Roman .... |
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Post by drstrange on Jul 21, 2015 11:45:16 GMT -6
You will not be getting the supima orders. He couldnt get the loom operating properly so it will not be produced. (...) definitely no surprise to me .... honestly, those who ordered this despite all the red flags posted in this forum and at a time when LD was clearly in hopeless arrears, can only blame themselves (and I'm not shifting guilt from R. to the customers) ... |
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Post by drstrange on Jul 21, 2015 11:48:33 GMT -6
So who do you think will play Roman in the movie? Sal, do you have any preferences for who will play you? I already have the tagline: "In a world, where denim is everything........you may have to give up.....everything" Id say Johnny Depp for Roman but he would use the character from Charlie & the Chocolate Factory. I would be played by Arnold Schwarzenegger with the tag line "Ill be back" Steven Seagal or this Van Damme bugger for Roman ... their acting is a perfect match to R's business sense .... Sal, so you're planning to trash the joint? |
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Post by matt on Jul 21, 2015 11:52:01 GMT -6
Id say Johnny Depp for Roman but he would use the character from Charlie & the Chocolate Factory. I would be played by Arnold Schwarzenegger with the tag line "Ill be back" Steven Seagal or this Van Damme bugger for Roman ... their acting is a perfect match to R's business sense .... Sal, so you're planning to trash the joint? "Trashing the joint" would imply that the place was of higher-quality (or standard quality) prior to the trashing. Do you not recall some of the pics we've posted over the months? Note the background, not a lot of room to add to "trash"  |
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Post by wdw on Jul 21, 2015 12:03:23 GMT -6
drstrange, I would caution against any ideas of launching a stealth raid to rescue "completed" items and then paying again to post them, especially overseas. From what we've seen here, for every made-to-spec item, about 5 or 10 seem to have issues of one sort or another, ranging from maybe acceptable wrong thread or buttons right up to wrong material, wrong size or the classic no buttons at all. By the time you pay additional postage and maybe customs fees etc, you might be better investing that in a real brand that gives you what you want within a few days.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2015 12:45:29 GMT -6
Id say Johnny Depp for Roman but he would use the character from Charlie & the Chocolate Factory. I would be played by Arnold Schwarzenegger with the tag line "Ill be back" Steven Seagal or this Van Damme bugger for Roman ... their acting is a perfect match to R's business sense .... Sal, so you're planning to trash the joint? Segal is PERFECT. Ignore my Nicholas Cage comment. |
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Post by drstrange on Jul 21, 2015 13:05:54 GMT -6
drstrange, I would caution against any ideas of launching a stealth raid to rescue "completed" items and then paying again to post them, especially overseas. From what we've seen here, for every made-to-spec item, about 5 or 10 seem to have issues of one sort or another, ranging from maybe acceptable wrong thread or buttons right up to wrong material, wrong size or the classic no buttons at all. By the time you pay additional postage and maybe customs fees etc, you might be better investing that in a real brand that gives you what you want within a few days. I know, falling prey to the sunk costs fallacy and wind up throwing good money after bad ... but then again, are you basically saying all the products are utter rubbish? I thought, more than 50% of the people were quite happy - or is that too optimistic? Perhaps not the guy with the no-button-custom-jeans ... |
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Post by exophobe on Jul 21, 2015 13:08:47 GMT -6
I know, falling prey to the sunk costs fallacy and wind up throwing good money after bad ... but then again, are you basically saying all the products are utter rubbish? I thought, more than 50% of the people were quite happy - or is that too optimistic? Perhaps not the guy with the no-button-custom-jeans ... I think those were "RTW". |
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Post by drstrange on Jul 21, 2015 13:13:19 GMT -6
I know, falling prey to the sunk costs fallacy and wind up throwing good money after bad ... but then again, are you basically saying all the products are utter rubbish? I thought, more than 50% of the people were quite happy - or is that too optimistic? Perhaps not the guy with the no-button-custom-jeans ... I think those were "RTW". I thought the "no button" was the customized part ....  |
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Post by wdw on Jul 21, 2015 13:18:02 GMT -6
drstrange, I'm not saying all the products are utter rubbish, just that the impression I got was that most weren't to spec, admittedly many for relatively minor reasons, although even they should never have happened. It seemed that a lot of people just accepted getting less than they asked for simply because they'd waited so long and couldn't face another long wait or the risk of not getting a refund. That wouldn't have been acceptable with any other brand I can think of. I guess that if you've only spent $50 on a product, then you can't expect the same standards as on a $200 one, but you could easily spend another $50 on shipping and fees here, only to find out it's a dud. Only you can decide if that risk is worth it to you. Good luck anyway. I hope you get what you paid for, as is your right.
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Post by drstrange on Jul 21, 2015 13:33:10 GMT -6
thanks wdw ...
I believe @ this point in time no one in his right mind would be expecting getting exactly what he/she was ordering .... then again, if this means e.g. the pocket-lining is tan instead of pink houndstooth, be it ... of course if it means I get size 31 instead of 36, the trousers would be absolutely useless for me ....
and btw you are right that it would be unacceptable for any brand to sending out items not matching what was ordered, even though we were talking about minor details .... the rule for any business should be: if you can't deliver don't offer it ... R's & Laura's excuses sounded a bit like: Hey sorry, the price was too low, so you get shorts instead of the trousers you ordered (what if I don't wear shorts (a wink @ bentin)) ....
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Post by bentin on Jul 21, 2015 13:40:44 GMT -6
It's not too late to try shorts! My grandmother, who passed last year, lived to 98 without ever wearing pants. Don't be my grandma.
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Post by beeranddenim on Jul 21, 2015 16:32:11 GMT -6
Again I'll ask. Did some of this cross over from incompetence to fraudulent, criminal activity?
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