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Post by univibe88 on Jan 17, 2015 7:22:34 GMT -6
I guess I can review here now that I have a pair that fits. I do sympathize with the people who are still waiting (waiting for Gustin chinos since the nov/dec ship date) . I initially ordered the indigo/indigo KS. It came up too tight from what I initially ordered a returned them for credit or a future run of the jeans I wanted. It was simple, quick and hassle free. A few days ago I get a notice about an order being shipped. I thought it was my shirt and belt I ordered later on the old site but it was my replacement jeans! I love them. I have 33 slim Gustin super heavys (won the grab bag lottery and got them for $80, 3 G shirts, chore coat and chinos ) and I would say in terms of construction these are on par. I also have N&F and APC and these are easily in the same realm. The sizing is slightly tighter than I expected but I am slightly fatter than I expected too! I am excited about these jeans and future orders. imgur.com/rwHE1ouimgur.com/QuTA09Qimgur.com/AEVQw1xThose look great! I don't think you would want them any looser. I am not going to lie, I am jealous of that denim! What color stitching did you get? |
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Post by indigoferanut on Jan 17, 2015 8:50:51 GMT -6
I guess I can review here now that I have a pair that fits. I do sympathize with the people who are still waiting (waiting for Gustin chinos since the nov/dec ship date) . *SNIP* I love them. I have 33 slim Gustin super heavys (won the grab bag lottery and got them for $80, 3 G shirts, chore coat and chinos ) and I would say in terms of construction these are on par. I also have N&F and APC and these are easily in the same realm. The sizing is slightly tighter than I expected but I am slightly fatter than I expected too! I am excited about these jeans and future orders. Out of morbid curiosity, what waist size did you order from Lawless (on these that fit)? Bonus question, if you measure them according to Gustin guidelines, where do they come in? MY LDs in 35 straight measure 17 inches across with the waist lying flat and pulled moderately tight. My 35 Gustin straights have all measured around 17.5 inches across using the same measuring method. Thus in LD you are loosing about an inch in waist compared to Gustin. The general consensus seems to be order LD one size up from your Gustin size. Remember, LDs true to size method of measuring is NOT the same as Gustins lay flat method. I see the above is merely a "conversion" factor from G size to LD size. |
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jdtmn
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Post by jdtmn on Jan 17, 2015 9:11:23 GMT -6
Wouldn't the simplest answer to sizing be don't compare to Gustin (or any other brand.)? Just get out a tape measure and order based on what you measure. I believe that's the simplicity LD is trying to promote but maybe I'm missing something? Comparing to other companies (over which LD has no control nor relationship) seems to set a faulty baseline. Rulers, however, are a pretty reliable and standard baseline. Now, I'll admit I'm still waiting for my KS pair and only own an in store custom pair from last spring so I can't truly comment firsthand, but thought I'd throw that out there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2015 9:43:21 GMT -6
Wouldn't the simplest answer to sizing be don't compare to Gustin (or any other brand.)? Just get out a tape measure and order based on what you measure. I believe that's the simplicity LD is trying to promote but maybe I'm missing something? Comparing to other companies (over which LD has no control nor relationship) seems to set a faulty baseline. Rulers, however, are a pretty reliable and standard baseline. Now, I'll admit I'm still waiting for my KS pair and only own an in store custom pair from last spring so I can't truly comment firsthand, but thought I'd throw that out there. i'd agree with this and have been stumped by how many people seem reluctant to order what the tape indicates after measuring their waist. maybe years of vanity sizing has had an effect on the male psyche as well? i know that varying rise can have an impact...so that's the only rational explanation i can have is that perhaps not knowing exactly where a 9.8" rise vs a 10.2" rise (just making those up) will fall on the waist is causing some hand wringing for some. |
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Post by mkeview on Jan 17, 2015 9:54:05 GMT -6
I ordered 34 slim straight. According to their guide (from KS) my measurements are perfect. Waist may be 33.75 instead of 34. Thigh 11.75 knee 8 leg opening 7.25 so those are on target. These are slightly slimmer than my 33 slim gustins.
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Post by exophobe on Jan 17, 2015 10:34:11 GMT -6
It's getting frustrating seeing people complain about the sizing when they explicitly state that they didn't follow the sizing instructions. However in situations where companies think that laying flat and measuring IS actual waist, this gets confusing. My point is mostly that, of the manufacturer goes so far as to make a video of how to do it, follow that. If you don't follow that, then you have to cut them some slack when your jeans come in the wrong size.
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Post by oatwilly on Jan 17, 2015 10:52:16 GMT -6
All I want is to look cute when I wear my special jeans and shirts, and be the envied by all men, and desired by all women when I wear them.
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Post by Marc on Jan 17, 2015 10:56:54 GMT -6
It's getting frustrating seeing people complain about the sizing when they explicitly state that they didn't follow the sizing instructions. However in situations where companies think that laying flat and measuring IS actual waist, this gets confusing. My point is mostly that, of the manufacturer goes so far as to make a video of how to do it, follow that. If you don't follow that, then you have to cut them some slack when your jeans come in the wrong size. I don't disagree, obviously when both parties (vendor and purchaser) use the identical method (whatever it may be) to fit clothing, results will be better with less misunderstanding. But I think where the confusion comes from (in mens' clothing generally) is that most of us don't wear the *waistband* of our pants at our *waist*. That is, our waist is rather higher than where we wear our jeans, particularly with the predominance of low and mid rise jeans. I think the other point of confusion (even though LD is upfront about this) is that LD has chosen a method that is different from industry standard (i.e. the way G, BiG, Blueowl, etc. have all trained us). I know exactly what I want my waistband to measure using the G method - and I wish LD conformed to this standard because I'be already gone through the trials and tribulations of getting it right over the course of a few orders. I hate the idea of having to start over. So I understand the hesitancy of trying an untested method (even if it's a bit irrational). All that said, I'm following the conventional wisdom here and ordering my LD denim one tag size larger than my G denim. |
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Post by Old26 on Jan 17, 2015 10:59:38 GMT -6
All I want is to look cute when I wear my special jeans and shirts, and be the envied by all men, and desired by all women when I wear them. Might want to get a bottle of Bombay Sapphire too. It will help with the parts after "All I want..."  |
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Post by marauder on Jan 17, 2015 11:08:37 GMT -6
Mathematically speaking, both LD and G measures should come in exactly the same assuming the thickness is infinitesimally small. Taking a circle (or ellipse to be precise) and flattening it does not change its circumference. Thickness of the material is what LD measurement takes into account, as you're supposed to measure around the waist of a pair of jeans that fits you well, but this measurement could vary a bit depending on the rise and the Oz weight. Measuring the waist with 30oz denim will not give the same result as 7oz. With Gs measuring style, it doesn't take the thickness of the denim into account (as much) and may be more consistent across varying weights.
That being said, there's no excuse not to follow whatever method the manufacturer has enlisted.
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Post by tarzan on Jan 17, 2015 11:19:30 GMT -6
Wouldn't the simplest answer to sizing be don't compare to Gustin (or any other brand.)? Just get out a tape measure and order based on what you measure. I believe that's the simplicity LD is trying to promote but maybe I'm missing something? Comparing to other companies (over which LD has no control nor relationship) seems to set a faulty baseline. Rulers, however, are a pretty reliable and standard baseline. Now, I'll admit I'm still waiting for my KS pair and only own an in store custom pair from last spring so I can't truly comment firsthand, but thought I'd throw that out there. For some, the simplest solution is to compare against a known variable. For example, LD sizing is Gustin +1. Or, Levi's 514 -1. I think this is a great starting point for determining sizing. The inherent problem with using new sizing methods (ie. measuring tape) is that it doesn't take into account how each one of us wants the jeans to fit out of the box. For me, I want one that is tight and will stretch to my body type. If I went with my true-tape measured size, because I don't know how LD sizes, will the fit out of the box be too loose / just right / a bit tight / very tight? So I think it's fair game to compare against Gustin sizing, or against a known variable. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2015 11:44:59 GMT -6
For some, the simplest solution is to compare against a known variable. For example, LD sizing is Gustin +1. Or, Levi's 514 -1. I think this is a great starting point for determining sizing. The inherent problem with using new sizing methods (ie. measuring tape) is that it doesn't take into account how each one of us wants the jeans to fit out of the box. For me, I want one that is tight and will stretch to my body type. If I went with my true-tape measured size, because I don't know how LD sizes, will the fit out of the box be too loose / just right / a bit tight / very tight? So I think it's fair game to compare against Gustin sizing, or against a known variable. this doesn't make as much sense to me as simply measuring...because you're actually introducing more variables. a.) your primary argument against using the vendor's recommendation of measuring your waist is that you are unsure of how LD sizes their fits. while for your 1st pair this is true, i'm not sure how measuring a pair of Gustin jeans helps in this regard...since you still don't know how LD sizes their fits. b.) unless you measure each pair of Gustins before you wear them, you could be dealing with a set of measurements that varies at least +/- 1" if they're in spec to much greater if they're not in spec. so you're now relying on how Gustin sizes their fits, if the Gustins arrived to spec, as well as how LD sizes their fits. c.) seems much easier to simply measure your waist at the point your jeans waistband usually sits (1 objective measurement), and then choose a corresponding LD size according to that number and your preferred fit (1 variable) |
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Post by jamesr on Jan 17, 2015 11:46:44 GMT -6
I think it would be easier if LD went with the mental model that all other online denim shops have established. Like Marc mentions above, its essentially an industry standard now and what people know. Nevertheless, I measured as LD points out on their site and am hoping for the best. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2015 11:55:09 GMT -6
I think it would be easier if LD went with the mental model that all other online denim shops have established. Like Marc mentions above, its essentially an industry standard now and what people know. Nevertheless, I measured as LD points out on their site and am hoping for the best. i'm guessing that since they started out as more of a custom shop (and still retain this model to an extent), they went with the broader tailor/custom industry standard of actual body measurement. if you're already willing to measure your current best fitting pairs of jeans, is it much more difficult to measure your waist? i could understand if it was a shoulder or sleeve measurement, which is tough to do solo...but waist is pretty basic. that said...i'm also guessing that many/most aren't even measuring their current jeans and are simply ordering based on the tagged size of whatever they currently wear. the same thing happened initially with gustin, where people repeatedly wouldn't actually measure and simply wanted to be given some special formula to use in comparison with other brands' tagged sizes. |
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Post by quick on Jan 17, 2015 11:55:14 GMT -6
anyone know what order # LD is on?
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Post by DigDug on Jan 17, 2015 12:03:36 GMT -6
I think it would be easier if LD went with the mental model that all other online denim shops have established. Like Marc mentions above, its essentially an industry standard now and what people know. Nevertheless, I measured as LD points out on their site and am hoping for the best. Just what LD needs, Another Fit Guide. Lol |
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Post by oatwilly on Jan 17, 2015 13:04:13 GMT -6
anyone know what order # LD is on? I got a shipping notice yesterday that my order #206 had a shipping label printed |
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Post by Tobesjones on Jan 17, 2015 13:15:35 GMT -6
anyone know what order # LD is on? I got a shipping notice yesterday that my order #206 had a shipping label printed All over the place. I have one in the 100s. Haven't seen anything. |
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Post by exophobe on Jan 17, 2015 13:21:49 GMT -6
I got a shipping notice yesterday that my order #206 had a shipping label printed All over the place. I have one in the 100s. Haven't seen anything. 116 was printed three weeks ago, just asked for a status update from my order page. |
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Post by tarzan on Jan 17, 2015 13:43:21 GMT -6
For some, the simplest solution is to compare against a known variable. For example, LD sizing is Gustin +1. Or, Levi's 514 -1. I think this is a great starting point for determining sizing. The inherent problem with using new sizing methods (ie. measuring tape) is that it doesn't take into account how each one of us wants the jeans to fit out of the box. For me, I want one that is tight and will stretch to my body type. If I went with my true-tape measured size, because I don't know how LD sizes, will the fit out of the box be too loose / just right / a bit tight / very tight? So I think it's fair game to compare against Gustin sizing, or against a known variable. this doesn't make as much sense to me as simply measuring...because you're actually introducing more variables. a.) your primary argument against using the vendor's recommendation of measuring your waist is that you are unsure of how LD sizes their fits. while for your 1st pair this is true, i'm not sure how measuring a pair of Gustin jeans helps in this regard...since you still don't know how LD sizes their fits. b.) unless you measure each pair of Gustins before you wear them, you could be dealing with a set of measurements that varies at least +/- 1" if they're in spec to much greater if they're not in spec. so you're now relying on how Gustin sizes their fits, if the Gustins arrived to spec, as well as how LD sizes their fits. c.) seems much easier to simply measure your waist at the point your jeans waistband usually sits (1 objective measurement), and then choose a corresponding LD size according to that number and your preferred fit (1 variable) If each of us were on an island, I would agree that measuring a pair of Gustin jeans would not help with how LD sizes their fits. And, after the 1st pair, we would be able to dial in the preferred LD fit. However by leveraging the collective knowledge of the community, each of us can better nail the fit out of the gate rather than after the 1st pair. So if someone says that they wear 35 in LD and the fit is very close to 34 in Gustin, then this goes a long way in helping others determine the proper fit. Of course one has to perform due diligence and take other factors into account but as a rule of thumb it helps. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2015 14:16:39 GMT -6
this doesn't make as much sense to me as simply measuring...because you're actually introducing more variables. a.) your primary argument against using the vendor's recommendation of measuring your waist is that you are unsure of how LD sizes their fits. while for your 1st pair this is true, i'm not sure how measuring a pair of Gustin jeans helps in this regard...since you still don't know how LD sizes their fits. b.) unless you measure each pair of Gustins before you wear them, you could be dealing with a set of measurements that varies at least +/- 1" if they're in spec to much greater if they're not in spec. so you're now relying on how Gustin sizes their fits, if the Gustins arrived to spec, as well as how LD sizes their fits. c.) seems much easier to simply measure your waist at the point your jeans waistband usually sits (1 objective measurement), and then choose a corresponding LD size according to that number and your preferred fit (1 variable) If each of us were on an island, I would agree that measuring a pair of Gustin jeans would not help with how LD sizes their fits. And, after the 1st pair, we would be able to dial in the preferred LD fit. However by leveraging the collective knowledge of the community, each of us can better nail the fit out of the gate rather than after the 1st pair. So if someone says that they wear 35 in LD and the fit is very close to 34 in Gustin, then this goes a long way in helping others determine the proper fit. Of course one has to perform due diligence and take other factors into account but as a rule of thumb it helps. i don't disagree with what you wrote here, and understand the approach. i guess my take is that none of those things are 'known variables'. given we all know that G denim can come in a spectrum of measured sizes for each 'tag' size, and that each person has a differing opinion on how they like their jeans to fit. those two elements are wide enough variables for me to want to use something as objective as possible like a measurement and knowledge of my own fit preferences against a fit guide. that said...i think there's a ton of value in the collective knowledge in terms of how close a manufacturer is to hitting spec over a sample of delivered products. i'm really not looking to sway anyone from what works for them...just hoping that people won't come back with sizing complaints on assumptions made from other brands' tagged sizes. (not you specifically...the customer base as a whole) |
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jlx
Junior Member
my plackets are also aligned...
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Post by jlx on Jan 17, 2015 16:21:09 GMT -6
Mathematically speaking, both LD and G measures should come in exactly the same assuming the thickness is infinitesimally small. Taking a circle (or ellipse to be precise) and flattening it does not change its circumference. Thickness of the material is what LD measurement takes into account, as you're supposed to measure around the waist of a pair of jeans that fits you well, but this measurement could vary a bit depending on the rise and the Oz weight. Measuring the waist with 30oz denim will not give the same result as 7oz. With Gs measuring style, it doesn't take the thickness of the denim into account (as much) and may be more consistent across varying weights. That being said, there's no excuse not to follow whatever method the manufacturer has enlisted. Great reasoning there! ^^ |
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Post by denimdon on Jan 17, 2015 23:44:21 GMT -6
People don't be lazy and break out the measuring tape it takes all of 3 minutes to measure
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Post by Mattbert on Jan 18, 2015 10:03:23 GMT -6
If each of us were on an island, I would agree that measuring a pair of Gustin jeans would not help with how LD sizes their fits. And, after the 1st pair, we would be able to dial in the preferred LD fit. However by leveraging the collective knowledge of the community, each of us can better nail the fit out of the gate rather than after the 1st pair. So if someone says that they wear 35 in LD and the fit is very close to 34 in Gustin, then this goes a long way in helping others determine the proper fit. Of course one has to perform due diligence and take other factors into account but as a rule of thumb it helps. i don't disagree with what you wrote here, and understand the approach. i guess my take is that none of those things are 'known variables'. given we all know that G denim can come in a spectrum of measured sizes for each 'tag' size, and that each person has a differing opinion on how they like their jeans to fit. those two elements are wide enough variables for me to want to use something as objective as possible like a measurement and knowledge of my own fit preferences against a fit guide. that said...i think there's a ton of value in the collective knowledge in terms of how close a manufacturer is to hitting spec over a sample of delivered products. i'm really not looking to sway anyone from what works for them...just hoping that people won't come back with sizing complaints on assumptions made from other brands' tagged sizes. (not you specifically...the customer base as a whole) THIS. A thousand times this. Well said, mister david. Also, I keep seeing everyone freak out about the waist measurement on jeans but for me that's almost the least important dimension. You can give me a pair of jeans that's a perfect fit in the waist but if they're too tight or super baggy in the legs, guess what? That dog don't hunt. By contrast, if the legs are spot on I can and will happily deal with anything up to about 1" either side of my true waist measurement. A bit too small in the waist and I know they'll stretch. A bit too large and that's what belts are for (plus tucking in a shirt and/or undershirt will take care of most of it anyway). When I'm looking at a fit guide, the first numbers I look at are the thigh and knee and cuff opening measurements. Only once I see a combination of those three that looks like the kind of taper I want do I even bother checking to see whether they're associated with a waist in the 34.5" to 36.5" range. IMO, people place way too much emphasis on the waist measurement, and the other measurements that have a lot more bearing on how the jeans will actually FIT are almost treated as an afterthought. |
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Post by ickes on Jan 18, 2015 12:13:18 GMT -6
Mattbert, I have to say that I DISCONCUR with your statement regarding the importance of the fit of the waist. To me the fit of the waist is probably the single most important part regarding the comfort of the jean. If its too tight its just too damn uncomfortable. Yeah I've played the stretching game plenty of times but it's not my preference. I feel like I have some serious muffin top going on when they're too tight and sitting down becomes more of a chore than it does an opportunity. It can feel like the waistband is cutting in to my intestines. It makes me feel like "everybody's talking bout my tight pants, bout my tight pants, I got my tight pants on." If the waist is too large it's equally as annoying although admittedly more comfortable than if its too tight. It usually increases the chances of having a saggier ass to the jean. Sure I can wear a belt but then I run the risk if getting some cinching action going on and that is a major pet peeve for me. If the waist don't fit I must acquit! The rest of the jean on the other hand I am much more tolerable with. I can and will rock different types of fits from a slim tapered fit with a lower rise to a straight leg roomier fit with a higher rise. Of course there are tolerances and parameters for everything (I'm not rockin skinny jeans or baggy ass JNCO jeans) but imo the tolerances are smaller in the waist measurement than they are for all the other areas of the jeans.
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