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Post by jamesr on Jan 16, 2015 11:09:02 GMT -6
variable, your shirt turned out nice. But please, please tell me that's a Large Slim? 22" across in the chest should be a Regular Medium or Large Slim. I ordered a Regular Medium and if the chest is much smaller than that I am in trouble.
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Post by indigoferanut on Jan 16, 2015 15:31:55 GMT -6
First Lawless Denim order arrived today. Totally stoked! I had four orders outstanding (kickstarter, old site, and 2 orders on new site). This particular order is from the old site, placed Oct 17th. Pair of Kuroki 18.5 oz $69 jeans and at the time what LD called their workshirt (similar to Oregon on current site) in 9.5 oz Candiani chambray. As a frame of reference, I have quite a collection of Gustin jeans, so I'll be making comparisons to them at points. First to the jeans: ordered 35 straights, 34 inch inseam. Actual waist lying flat (Gustin method) is 34 inches. Inseam is spot on 34 inches. I wear a 35 straight in Gustins, which admittedly are a bit big on me, so a 34 Gustin straight would compare quite well with a LD 35 straight. Many seem to suggest going one size up with LD as compared to Gustins, and I would agree. Stitching is straight, alignment great, scalloped fly cool, and thick veg patch awesome. Quality overall is comparable to the Gustins I own, so for a pair of 18 oz Japanese selvedge denim made in America for $69 you can't go wrong. Pocket bags are more substantial and deeper than Gustins. Rivets at the stress points have a nice tuft of denim fabric peeking through, unlike the Gustins which use a flat rivet. Back pockets are ever so slightly bigger on the LDs compared to G. I like the extra belt loop on the LDs. In a nut shell - very impressed with the LDs. Considering I don't have to take them straight to the tailor to get them hemmed like Gs, they are an even greater value than the G's.      |
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Post by indigoferanut on Jan 16, 2015 15:47:46 GMT -6
Now on to the WS. ordered XL slim. MY WS size in G is XL classic. While the LD is big on me right now, I purposely bought it large as I machine wash and dry all my shirts, so I get a fair amount of shrinkage. The 9.5 oz Candiani chambray is substantial at 9.5 oz. Stitching is straight except for a couple minor areas. Pockets have a nice canvas lining. I like the detail placement of the selvage, and the fact that the LD patch is leather and sewn in such a way that the white rectangle stitching does not show through to the outside of the shirt on the back. No gusset or chainstitch runoff. Scoops are pretty deep, comparable to Gustin's WS. Overall a great deal for $65, but my first impression would be that the LD jeans are finished to a higher standard than the LD WS. I get the impression that person who made the LD WS could have used a bit more experience in making the shirt, (e.g. tighten up the tolerances a bit). But that is me being nit-picky. Can't wait for my other orders!    |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 16:04:03 GMT -6
First Lawless Denim order arrived today. Totally stoked! I had four orders outstanding (kickstarter, old site, and 2 orders on new site). This particular order is from the old site, placed Oct 17th. Pair of Kuroki 18.5 oz $69 jeans and at the time what LD called their workshirt (similar to Oregon on current site) in 9.5 oz Candiani chambray. As a frame of reference, I have quite a collection of Gustin jeans, so I'll be making comparisons to them at points. First to the jeans: ordered 35 straights, 34 inch inseam. Actual waist lying flat (Gustin method) is 34 inches. Inseam is spot on 34 inches. I wear a 35 straight in Gustins, which admittedly are a bit big on me, so a 34 Gustin straight would compare quite well with a LD 35 straight. Many seem to suggest going one size up with LD as compared to Gustins, and I would agree. Stitching is straight, alignment great, scalloped fly cool, and thick veg patch awesome. Quality overall is comparable to the Gustins I own, so for a pair of 18 oz Japanese selvedge denim made in America for $69 you can't go wrong. Pocket bags are more substantial and deeper than Gustins. Rivets at the stress points have a nice tuft of denim fabric peeking through, unlike the Gustins which use a flat rivet. Back pockets are ever so slightly bigger on the LDs compared to G. I like the extra belt loop on the LDs. In a nut shell - very impressed with the LDs. Considering I don't have to take them straight to the tailor to get them hemmed like Gs, they are an even greater value than the G's. Thanks for the review and I agree with you wholeheartedly especially the hem. I need to ship my jeans to SF for chain stitch since no one can do it here without 50 miles. I just got the shipping confirmation and should have my order by late next week. Cannot wait. |
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jdtmn
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Post by jdtmn on Jan 16, 2015 16:06:54 GMT -6
Now on to the WS. ordered XL slim. MY WS size in G is XL classic. While the LD is big on me right now, I purposely bought it large as I machine wash and dry all my shirts, so I get a fair amount of shrinkage. The 9.5 oz Candiani chambray is substantial at 9.5 oz. Stitching is straight except for a couple minor areas. Pockets have a nice canvas lining. I like the detail placement of the selvage, and the fact that the LD patch is leather and sewn in such a way that the white rectangle stitching does not show through to the outside of the shirt on the back. No gusset or chainstitch runoff. Scoops are pretty deep, comparable to Gustin's WS. Overall a great deal for $65, but my first impression would be that the LD jeans are finished to a higher standard than the LD WS. I get the impression that person who made the LD WS could have used a bit more experience in making the shirt, (e.g. tighten up the tolerances a bit). But that is me being nit-picky. Can't wait for my other orders! ------------------------------ Very cool! This is the shirt I ordered on the old site in early October as well. (No word on any status or shipping date yet though.) Question regarding gussets/chain stitch run off? Were those unexpectedly omitted? I remember they were mentioned on the old site as features of the shirt so just curious. The chain stitch run off is not a big deal to me but like the selvege detail on the gussets (given it is selvege after all!)  |
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Post by indigoferanut on Jan 16, 2015 16:26:01 GMT -6
I honestly can't remember if gussets and chainstitch was mentioned on the old site. I'm with you though, the selvedge gussets would have been a nice touch. Since I plan on wearing this tucked in, no biggie, and especially considering the price.
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Post by variable on Jan 16, 2015 17:36:16 GMT -6
variable, your shirt turned out nice. But please, please tell me that's a Large Slim? 22" across in the chest should be a Regular Medium or Large Slim. I ordered a Regular Medium and if the chest is much smaller than that I am in trouble. Alas, it was a regular fit. I've got too much of a spare tire for slim shirts.  |
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Post by exophobe on Jan 16, 2015 18:20:42 GMT -6
I honestly can't remember if gussets and chainstitch was mentioned on the old site. I'm with you though, the selvedge gussets would have been a nice touch. Since I plan on wearing this tucked in, no biggie, and especially considering the price. most of the shirts currently available for order were launched with the new site, I don't think the workshirt for the old site is still something on offer, though I know Dirty_Denim seemed to be instrumental in the new shirt lineup, so he could probably confirm or deny that. |
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Post by oatwilly on Jan 16, 2015 19:01:14 GMT -6
Shirt was delivered. Size was altered from Medium to Large, per my emailed request and it was tagged as a Large, so that's good. Here are the measured specs (all measured across, not around): Chest: 22 Body: 28 Sweep: 20.5 Arm: 35.5 Shoulder: 18 Collar (around the inside): 17 I'm confused about these measurements. Are these old site or kickstarter measurements? I ordered a bunch of shirts in Large Reg based on the current site measurement chart, which are MUCH different than what you've posted. For example 19.5" is the shoulder measurement for both slim and reg fit L per their site chart but yours came in at 18"? Can anyone comment? |
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Post by jbreitenbucher on Jan 16, 2015 19:06:03 GMT -6
Shirt was delivered. Size was altered from Medium to Large, per my emailed request and it was tagged as a Large, so that's good. Here are the measured specs (all measured across, not around): Chest: 22 Body: 28 Sweep: 20.5 Arm: 35.5 Shoulder: 18 Collar (around the inside): 17 I'm confused about these measurements. Are these old site or kickstarter measurements? I ordered a bunch of shirts in Large Reg based on the current site measurement chart, which are MUCH different than what you've posted. For example 19.5" is the shoulder measurement for both slim and reg fit L per their site chart but yours came in at 18"? Can anyone comment? I would almost guarantee that these were old site or KS measurements. I think that was the issue with my WS from the old site. None of the sizes were quite right and so I picked the closest and requested adjustments to the pattern to work for me, and the adjustments didn't get made to the garment. |
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Post by variable on Jan 16, 2015 19:08:22 GMT -6
It was an old site order. If I had been wise, I would have kept the size chart from the old site, but I didn't.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 19:12:26 GMT -6
the ks shirt guide shows a 19" shoulder measurement for a regular large and a 46" chest. the medium has 18" shoulders and a 44" chest...looks like variable's may have been sewn up with Medium measurements |
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Post by oatwilly on Jan 16, 2015 19:18:04 GMT -6
Interesting. So thats a second pair mentioned thats smaller than specd. Wow. Oh boy, that's a concern. I ordered 6 pairs in a 36 waist. If they come in at anything less than 35.5" I'm in real trouble. Can't hang with too tight jeans digging into my gut. I'd have to return them  Sending out goods not sewn up per their sizing chart is what would kill this sort of business. You can fudge the tolerances somewhat with items selling at a retail level, because people are able to try them on first. But with this sort of business model, their success or failure will hinge on the measurements being spot on |
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Post by exophobe on Jan 16, 2015 20:13:05 GMT -6
Oh boy, that's a concern. I ordered 6 pairs in a 36 waist. If they come in at anything less than 35.5" I'm in real trouble. Can't hang with too tight jeans digging into my gut. I'd have to return them Sending out goods not sewn up per their sizing chart is what would kill this sort of business. You can fudge the tolerances somewhat with items selling at a retail level, because people are able to try them on first. But with this sort of business model, their success or failure will hinge on the measurements being spot on I believe it all comes down to how you came to that 36 waist decision. If it's because you wear a Gustin 36, and you didn't check out the rest of the measurements or determine your size in the recommended way, you're likely to end up in trouble. If you ordered a 36 because the circumference of your waist where your jeans sit is 36", then you should be in good shape. There seem to be a lot of people ordering 36 because that's "what they wear", but not because that's what they measured their waist to be. This is the same thing a lot of people run into with Gustin. They don't go and do the legwork recommended in the fit guide and then cry foul when they wear a 36 in Levi's but the Gustin 36 is like wearing leg condoms. Yes. Yes it is, because you didn't do the work up front and figure out that measuring those 36" Levi's you love in the way they recommend yields 19" or even 20" across. If you measured, you should have little to worry about. If you wear a 36 slim in Gustin and ordered a 36 slim straight in Lawless, you probably have much to worry about, the entire cut is slimmer, and your actual waist is likely closer to an actual 37" as opposed to an actual 35" (this is fudging somewhat, but based on field reports, it seems that a 36 tagged lawless is likely to measure closer to 35 measured using the Gustin method, which would put it at the high end of tolerances (for Gustin) for a 34, low end of a 35. At least, based on measurements I've taken, I'm a 33 Gustin, but my actual waist is closer to 35 than 33, so I ordered 35 in Lawless. |
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Post by oatwilly on Jan 16, 2015 20:30:32 GMT -6
Yeah, it does matter how people are measuring them now that I think about it. If you use the LD recommended measuring method, a pair of jeans will measure a tad larger than the same jeans measured via the Gustin method. By about 1/4 to 1/2 inch or so. The people saying their LD's are coming in 1" under spec in the waist haven't mentioned how they measured them. And Sal did say they intentionally sew them up 1/2" smaller than spec to allow for stretching. Add that 1/2 inch to the 1/2 inch or so that's lost when you measure Gustin method VS LD method, and you have that missing 1" shit man all this math! I just hope they fit  |
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Post by exophobe on Jan 16, 2015 20:35:49 GMT -6
Yeah, it does matter how people are measuring them now that I think about it. If you use the LD recommended measuring method, a pair of jeans will measure a tad larger than the same jeans measured via the Gustin method. By about 1/4 to 1/2 inch or so. The people saying their LD's are coming in 1" under spec in the waist haven't mentioned how they measured them. And Sal did say they intentionally sew them up 1/2" smaller than spec to allow for stretching. Add that 1/2 inch to the 1/2 inch or so that's lost when you measure Gustin method VS LD method, and you have that missing 1" You have that backwards. If you measure a 35 tagged lawless, it's likely to measure somewhere around 17 if measured like Gustin recommends, whereas if you measure a 35 tagged Gustin, it should measure a little shy of 18 across. |
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Post by pevil on Jan 16, 2015 20:39:19 GMT -6
Lawless claims to be TTS. To me, that means if I order a 33, I should get a 33" waist, not a 32.5". My favorite pair is 34" measured flat, so I ordered a 33 expecting to get an inch of stretch. I can probably make a 32.5" work, but that's not what I was expecting.
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Post by oatwilly on Jan 16, 2015 21:25:09 GMT -6
Yeah, it does matter how people are measuring them now that I think about it. If you use the LD recommended measuring method, a pair of jeans will measure a tad larger than the same jeans measured via the Gustin method. By about 1/4 to 1/2 inch or so. The people saying their LD's are coming in 1" under spec in the waist haven't mentioned how they measured them. And Sal did say they intentionally sew them up 1/2" smaller than spec to allow for stretching. Add that 1/2 inch to the 1/2 inch or so that's lost when you measure Gustin method VS LD method, and you have that missing 1" You have that backwards. If you measure a 35 tagged lawless, it's likely to measure somewhere around 17 if measured like Gustin recommends, whereas if you measure a 35 tagged Gustin, it should measure a little shy of 18 across. Yeah I know. I wear a Gustin 35. I ordered my LD's in 36. I'm just saying I hope they don't come in less than 35.5" when measured flat |
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Post by exophobe on Jan 16, 2015 21:38:25 GMT -6
Lawless claims to be TTS. To me, that means if I order a 33, I should get a 33" waist, not a 32.5". My favorite pair is 34" measured flat, so I ordered a 33 expecting to get an inch of stretch. I can probably make a 32.5" work, but that's not what I was expecting. If it's 34 measured flat, I'm going to venture a guess that your actual waist is closer to 35 -- which you would know if you had already measured prior to ordering like the fit guide says. True to size means it is the size that your real waist measures. Laying your jeans flat like they specifically say not to do in their fit/measuring guide will not get you the number you're looking for. Seriously guys, if you ask them, Lawless will SEND YOU A CLOTH MEASURING TAPE so that you can actually measure the way they tell you you need to on their site. They're not saying this because they don't know how to do what Gustin does, they're telling you this so that you will order pants that actually fit you. I don't know how to tell you guys this, but seriously, you're three dimensional, pants don't sit on your waist at a perfect level (note different front and rear rise) and all these things make a damn difference. I feel like I could keep typing this until my fingers fall off and people will still come back and start a ruckus when the pants they ordered sized EXPLICITLY AGAINST the instructions in the sizing and fit guidelines. Seriously guys, they're telling you these things cause they want your jeans to fit. Working against that is more likely to end up with you having jeans that don't fit than you being right that they don't know how to use a tape measure. There will be variances, yes, but seriously kids, you gotta do what the fit guide says. |
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Post by univibe88 on Jan 16, 2015 22:07:07 GMT -6
You have that backwards. If you measure a 35 tagged lawless, it's likely to measure somewhere around 17 if measured like Gustin recommends, whereas if you measure a 35 tagged Gustin, it should measure a little shy of 18 across. Yeah I know. I wear a Gustin 35. I ordered my LD's in 36. I'm just saying I hope they don't come in less than 35.5" when measured flat I wear a 35 gustin and ordered 36 lawless. They are perfect. Just the right snugness out of the box and will stretch to be exactly where they need to be. Remember everyone, order by your true waist size. Don't try to allow for stretch by sizing down. LD has stretch already figured in with their sizing. Don't overthink it. Just do what you're told! Lol |
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Post by mkeview on Jan 16, 2015 23:21:41 GMT -6
I guess I can review here now that I have a pair that fits. I do sympathize with the people who are still waiting (waiting for Gustin chinos since the nov/dec ship date) . I initially ordered the indigo/indigo KS. It came up too tight from what I initially ordered a returned them for credit or a future run of the jeans I wanted. It was simple, quick and hassle free. A few days ago I get a notice about an order being shipped. I thought it was my shirt and belt I ordered later on the old site but it was my replacement jeans! I love them. I have 33 slim Gustin super heavys (won the grab bag lottery and got them for $80, 3 G shirts, chore coat and chinos ) and I would say in terms of construction these are on par. I also have N&F and APC and these are easily in the same realm. The sizing is slightly tighter than I expected but I am slightly fatter than I expected too! I am excited about these jeans and future orders. imgur.com/rwHE1ouimgur.com/QuTA09Qimgur.com/AEVQw1x |
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Post by exophobe on Jan 16, 2015 23:37:20 GMT -6
I guess I can review here now that I have a pair that fits. I do sympathize with the people who are still waiting (waiting for Gustin chinos since the nov/dec ship date) . *SNIP* I love them. I have 33 slim Gustin super heavys (won the grab bag lottery and got them for $80, 3 G shirts, chore coat and chinos ) and I would say in terms of construction these are on par. I also have N&F and APC and these are easily in the same realm. The sizing is slightly tighter than I expected but I am slightly fatter than I expected too! I am excited about these jeans and future orders. Out of morbid curiosity, what waist size did you order from Lawless (on these that fit)? Bonus question, if you measure them according to Gustin guidelines, where do they come in? |
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Post by goon on Jan 16, 2015 23:37:50 GMT -6
exophobe Those look great. What size did you order btw?
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Post by exophobe on Jan 17, 2015 0:14:05 GMT -6
exophobe Those look great. What size did you order btw? That's the same question I asked mkeview . Those are his jeans. |
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Post by Griffin on Jan 17, 2015 2:37:05 GMT -6
Yeah I know. I wear a Gustin 35. I ordered my LD's in 36. I'm just saying I hope they don't come in less than 35.5" when measured flat I wear a 35 gustin and ordered 36 lawless. They are perfect. Just the right snugness out of the box and will stretch to be exactly where they need to be. Remember everyone, order by your true waist size. Don't try to allow for stretch by sizing down. LD has stretch already figured in with their sizing. Don't overthink it. Just do what you're told! Lol Same here. 35 slim in G, got 36 in LD slim and they are snug and perfect. |
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