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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 8:22:01 GMT -6
Jray I don't think that's possible, he's not on site all the time? I think he flies to Phoenix but isn't there full time?
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Post by jray on Dec 22, 2014 8:25:05 GMT -6
I should have been more clear, I didn't mean DD necessarily, but LD.
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Dec 22, 2014 8:26:33 GMT -6
These problems were created by LD. Now we need to know that they will be resolved. There have been too many post by DD with a lot of explanations and excuses but short on solutions. I posted a solution only a few days ago, Roman is setting up another factory and in fact he is leaving again this week to get some more things in line. As for me posting, thats all I can do at my current capabilities. If I were in AZ already I would have a much better understanding of where everything is. I try my best to do what I can from my home jeffrx I agree we should be updating people individually via an email wdw Yes definitely not something we can sustain and that is why we allowed it for the initial launch to allow people to dial in a few things. This decisioan was planned but also changed to allow us to catch up. I know many want us to succeed and trust me we will. We are not having issues trust me but we are LATE and falling behind on promised dates. The fix for all of this is more sewers to help speed up that process. The factory in LA will help resolve a few things, including freeing me up to do other things I am meant to do. |
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Dec 22, 2014 8:31:25 GMT -6
DD - given the support you've received from members on here, I suggest you take the time to provide each of us if requested now or previously with an update on where each of our orders are in the production process and a REALISIC idea of when shipping notice will be received. That will give us comfort and stop us from asking. I would PM you or go through the chat on the site, but noone ever seems to be there. I will happily take care of your questions as best I can. |
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Post by Winterland on Dec 22, 2014 11:29:23 GMT -6
I think it's invaluable having a representative from a manufacturer on here helping members, such as Sal, Ciano Farmer etc. We do not want to lose that. In fact we want to have more on here. Let's not go all crazy here or will scare them all away.  Try to not let our frustrations get the best of us. It is harder to be a gentleman in times of frustration and stress. It has been mentioned a few times it would be best to communicate order specifics through PM instead of on the forums itself, unless it is something that will help other members. Thanks Sal for all the energy you are putting into helping the forum members. It is appreciated. |
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Post by davelewis on Dec 22, 2014 11:47:48 GMT -6
I think it's invaluable having a representative from a manufacturer on here helping members, such as Sal, Ciano Farmer etc. We do not want to lose that. In fact we want to have more on here. Let's not go all crazy here or will scare them all away. Try to not let our frustrations get the best of us. It is harder to be a gentleman in times of frustration and stress. It has been mentioned a few times it would be best to communicate order specifics through PM instead of on the forums itself, unless it is something that will help other members. Thanks Sal for all the energy you are putting into helping the forum members. It is appreciated. I agree that we like having vendor reps chiming in here, but I can see where you would have much less frustrations than some. You have received an order, sent it back for alteration, and received it back again, where most are still wondering what up with their orders. I see on the last page, where someone has received their 'old site" order, and confirmation that an order from the "new site" is being completed. To me, this is just wrong, until ALL old site orders are out. I just wanted a couple spec shirts. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 12:13:44 GMT -6
I think it's invaluable having a representative from a manufacturer on here helping members, such as Sal, Ciano Farmer etc. We do not want to lose that. In fact we want to have more on here. Let's not go all crazy here or will scare them all away. Try to not let our frustrations get the best of us. It is harder to be a gentleman in times of frustration and stress. It has been mentioned a few times it would be best to communicate order specifics through PM instead of on the forums itself, unless it is something that will help other members. Thanks Sal for all the energy you are putting into helping the forum members. It is appreciated. I agree that we like having vendor reps chiming in here, but I can see where you would have much less frustrations than some. You have received an order, sent it back for alteration, and received it back again, where most are still wondering what up with their orders. I see on the last page, where someone has received their 'old site" order, and confirmation that an order from the "new site" is being completed. To me, this is just wrong, until ALL old site orders are out. I just wanted a couple spec shirts. Yep, it's disheartening to hear of this. People are waiting 15+ weeks for their orders with very vague information about them... |
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Post by Winterland on Dec 22, 2014 12:30:28 GMT -6
I agree that we like having vendor reps chiming in here, but I can see where you would have much less frustrations than some. You have received an order, sent it back for alteration, and received it back again, where most are still wondering what up with their orders. I see on the last page, where someone has received their 'old site" order, and confirmation that an order from the "new site" is being completed. To me, this is just wrong, until ALL old site orders are out. I just wanted a couple spec shirts. Yep, it's disheartening to hear of this. People are waiting 15+ weeks for their orders with very vague information about them... Welcome to the world of kick starter. In all seriousness I believe the majority of lawless orders are being fulfilled, just as are Gustins. It is the minority that have issues and of course are more likely to voice their frustrations. I have chosen to communicate directly when having any issues with orders with vendors instead of airing it here or other forums. |
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Post by Winterland on Dec 22, 2014 12:53:26 GMT -6
I think it's invaluable having a representative from a manufacturer on here helping members, such as Sal, Ciano Farmer etc. We do not want to lose that. In fact we want to have more on here. Let's not go all crazy here or will scare them all away. Try to not let our frustrations get the best of us. It is harder to be a gentleman in times of frustration and stress. It has been mentioned a few times it would be best to communicate order specifics through PM instead of on the forums itself, unless it is something that will help other members. Thanks Sal for all the energy you are putting into helping the forum members. It is appreciated. I agree that we like having vendor reps chiming in here, but I can see where you would have much less frustrations than some. You have received an order, sent it back for alteration, and received it back again, where most are still wondering what up with their orders. I see on the last page, where someone has received their 'old site" order, and confirmation that an order from the "new site" is being completed. To me, this is just wrong, until ALL old site orders are out. I just wanted a couple spec shirts. I am still waiting for orders also. I might be more persistent than some when communicating with vendors. If someone has had absolutely no contact since their initial order I would say they are not trying hard enough. It has been explained many times why newer orders are being put out before old orders. Lack of working contact info, order changes, added customization, which is probably a big reason but at the same time an amazing feature, etc. Let's not keep debating this. Need to go back to work to make some money to pay for my goodies.  |
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Post by Old26 on Dec 22, 2014 12:58:17 GMT -6
As am I. I didn't get any feedback on my order that I placed, which is why I only ordered the one Montana shirt until I see a steady flow. Pretty much the same thing I did with Gustin until I had some faith built upon successful deliveries.
I just don't use any startup if I want it NOW. For those items, I need to get 2nd hand or off the shelf.
If/when LD gets it flowing, I'll be ordering a lot. But that point is not yet here. I hope I see it soon because I really want a lot of shirts especially.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 13:20:04 GMT -6
i'm glad Sal is here, i'm glad Roman has been as engaged as he has. i like the products and services that LD offers, and hope they thrive. but...the solution of expansion won't go towards alleviating the current backlog (it may slow things down if anything). it seems focusing on the KS and old site orders, which are being tracked via paper would be the most expedient way to clear the log jam. it seems that knowing what the current real output isn't even possible at the moment considering that so many existing orders have to go through so many custom options and analog verification points. only once everything is being produced with the current fewer customization options and the newer tracking system can real production levels be assessed. not that i'm against expansion, but it might be putting the cart before the horse and doesn't seem like a solution to the issue at hand.
taken by itself, i don't think the delay is bothersome. the bothersome component is the culmination of not being able to get an accurate status, knowing some delay is being caused by old and new site order production, and some fear of sizing/construction detail issues (since we know that there have been system issues and multiple size chart changes along the way). having the extra access and information of a place like this can be a double edged sword. it makes it more difficult to just forget & wait it out. it's both exciting and 'salt in the wound' to see new products being delivered that were ordered so long after something you've been waiting for...paradoxical.
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Post by Old26 on Dec 22, 2014 13:22:52 GMT -6
Agreed. We also see a lot less of the LD guys posting, which one assumes is due to them having to bust hump to get caught up. WE have bodies in AZ, so I know that of the orders don't come, we can break some legs  I'm not worried. I'm being patient and hoping it all settles soon. It's tough to start a biz, and I'm sure they've already learned some tough lessons... That being said...I would not begrudge anyone who is more upset than me. I went in with a certain mindset. But please, in your unhappiness, post here with class. You can be upset and still not be insulting, etc. |
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Post by Old26 on Dec 22, 2014 13:35:05 GMT -6
Every time I see @david post, I can't help it:  |
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Post by ickes on Dec 22, 2014 13:40:35 GMT -6
I think some of us here are being too harsh on LD and Sal. Like others have stated this is the world of KS and I know that technically they are past the KS point as they have set up their site and taken lots of orders, but I went in to this anticipating that issues like this would arise. I'm in no hurry to receive my products and I don't have a shortage of jeans and/or shirts right now and I would wager that none of us here really do. I think it is only detrimental to this forum if there are members on here who are going to push company reps away, it does absolutely no good to any of us. I believe that we should feel privileged to have company reps here interacting with us on a daily basis and Dirty_Denim works his ass off and is as transparent as they come imo. Relax guys, it's just clothes. I understand you have paid your money up front and haven't received your products yet but I have no doubt that you will. Oh, and btw, just so you guys know I was probably one of the first people on this community to make an order from Lawless. If I'm not then I believe matt would be the only one ahead of me. I ordered 1 WS and 4 pairs of jeans and I have not received them yet. I placed my order in late July early August (can't remember exactly when). I am not pointing this out to brag, I am pointing this out because some of you might be thinking that I can be more tolerant and have a more forgiving attitude than others because I have received an LD order already, which I did just last week. As for my KS order, I've probably waited longer than most of you but I'm fine with it and I'm not on here venting at Dirty_Denim about it. There has been communication regarding my KS order and I believe I will no doubt receive my products. |
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Post by Winterland on Dec 22, 2014 13:47:51 GMT -6
Every time I see @david post, I can't help it: That's funny but from some of his posts and take this in the best way David, I see this.  |
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Post by Griffin on Dec 22, 2014 14:11:09 GMT -6
To be named in the same breath as the mighty Spock can be nothing but extreme joy and feeling of gratitude.....great joy and gratitude.
(trek-reference for you who think I`m madder then usual)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 14:39:51 GMT -6
Every time I see @david post, I can't help it: That's funny but from some of his posts and take this in the best way David, I see this. both...hilarious. thanks guys. |
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Post by jbcoulier on Dec 22, 2014 16:24:12 GMT -6
I'm with Ickes on this one. I understand the unhappiness of some, but personally I also don't feel desperate or pissed off. For sure there are lessons here for LD regarding over-promising, and those are real lessons that could, worst case scenario, sink the biz if not addressed. But I think this came about not out of greed or carelessness but over-enthusiasm. That's my impression and feel free to disagree or to lambast it as not a good reason. Which, when you're in business, OK: no reason is a good enough reason for the consumer when things aren't 100%.
But here's the thing: as a group of people who spend a lot of time on this forum, I think that over-enthusiasm is probably something we can all identify with. I'm for sure holding fire on new orders until things get sorted, but I would encourage everyone again to reach out to Roman and DD personally if there are issues. I understand that there are real issues and justified irritations. But I don't want R and DD and Sal to get a skewed perspective of the community here. That's my only concern. Once a relationship gets overly sour, even in business, it's hard to bring it back.
On top of that, you can call me soft in the head, but I don't see the 'relationship' with LD as SIMPLY business as usual. I can get that from GAP. You support a start-up, well, it's a start-up. You're trying to get something that isn't flying yet off the ground. You invest in it with more than your money -- you kind of commit to it, at least a little ... the idea of it. So I understand the hard feelings, etc.. But I also think you sort of have to decide, if people are trying to be above-board (that's a judgment call) if you still want to see them succeed, or if you want to demand all your rights. So, yeah, that's my perspective.
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Post by jdtmn on Dec 22, 2014 20:44:38 GMT -6
I'm with Ickes on this one. I understand the unhappiness of some, but personally I also don't feel desperate or pissed off. For sure there are lessons here for LD regarding over-promising, and those are real lessons that could, worst case scenario, sink the biz if not addressed. But I think this came about not out of greed or carelessness but over-enthusiasm. That's my impression and feel free to disagree or to lambast it as not a good reason. Which, when you're in business, OK: no reason is a good enough reason for the consumer when things aren't 100%. But here's the thing: as a group of people who spend a lot of time on this forum, I think that over-enthusiasm is probably something we can all identify with. I'm for sure holding fire on new orders until things get sorted, but I would encourage everyone again to reach out to Roman and DD personally if there are issues. I understand that there are real issues and justified irritations. But I don't want R and DD and Sal to get a skewed perspective of the community here. That's my only concern. Once a relationship gets overly sour, even in business, it's hard to bring it back. On top of that, you can call me soft in the head, but I don't see the 'relationship' with LD as SIMPLY business as usual. I can get that from GAP. You support a start-up, well, it's a start-up. You're trying to get something that isn't flying yet off the ground. You invest in it with more than your money -- you kind of commit to it, at least a little ... the idea of it. So I understand the hard feelings, etc.. But I also think you sort of have to decide, if people are trying to be above-board (that's a judgment call) if you still want to see them succeed, or if you want to demand all your rights. So, yeah, that's my perspective. Well said. Hopefully Lawless is making it Job 1 to get the KS and old site orders out (even if it's completely manual) including reaching out to customers to say "we haven't forgotten you" (rather than waiting for the customer to inquire) and then resume bringing us lots of great new offerings. Looking forward to it. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 21:14:28 GMT -6
I'm with Ickes on this one. I understand the unhappiness of some, but personally I also don't feel desperate or pissed off. For sure there are lessons here for LD regarding over-promising, and those are real lessons that could, worst case scenario, sink the biz if not addressed. But I think this came about not out of greed or carelessness but over-enthusiasm. That's my impression and feel free to disagree or to lambast it as not a good reason. Which, when you're in business, OK: no reason is a good enough reason for the consumer when things aren't 100%. But here's the thing: as a group of people who spend a lot of time on this forum, I think that over-enthusiasm is probably something we can all identify with. I'm for sure holding fire on new orders until things get sorted, but I would encourage everyone again to reach out to Roman and DD personally if there are issues. I understand that there are real issues and justified irritations. But I don't want R and DD and Sal to get a skewed perspective of the community here. That's my only concern. Once a relationship gets overly sour, even in business, it's hard to bring it back. On top of that, you can call me soft in the head, but I don't see the 'relationship' with LD as SIMPLY business as usual. I can get that from GAP. You support a start-up, well, it's a start-up. You're trying to get something that isn't flying yet off the ground. You invest in it with more than your money -- you kind of commit to it, at least a little ... the idea of it. So I understand the hard feelings, etc.. But I also think you sort of have to decide, if people are trying to be above-board (that's a judgment call) if you still want to see them succeed, or if you want to demand all your rights. So, yeah, that's my perspective. Well said. Hopefully Lawless is making it Job 1 to get the KS and old site orders out (even if it's completely manual) including reaching out to customers to say "we haven't forgotten you" (rather than waiting for the customer to inquire) and then resume bringing us lots of great new offerings. Looking forward to it.But they are not, That is the problem. |
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jdtmn
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Post by jdtmn on Dec 22, 2014 21:45:24 GMT -6
Well said. Hopefully Lawless is making it Job 1 to get the KS and old site orders out (even if it's completely manual) including reaching out to customers to say "we haven't forgotten you" (rather than waiting for the customer to inquire) and then resume bringing us lots of great new offerings. Looking forward to it.But they are not, That is the problem. Thus the word "hopefully".  . It's rare when a business can get such candid feedback about what the root cause is of customer dissatisfaction. Companies pay millions to consultants to find the "voice of the customer.". Well, here it is for Lawless. Free for the taking. Hopefully (there's that word again) they not be only listen but also act. |
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Post by Old26 on Dec 22, 2014 21:46:40 GMT -6
Well and the fact that they have a lot of people to talk to. Let's just allow them to get things under control. Again, contact the vendors if you need help with an order.
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Post by jeffrx on Dec 22, 2014 21:58:19 GMT -6
"Let me talk to the manager!"
"I AM the manager".
"Oh shit."
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 23:50:25 GMT -6
I think a lot of us are more patient with orders than average because we already have a decent collection. Those who are getting their first taste of raw denim and custom clothing will be crazy impatient. I remember I was when I ordered my first pair of Okayama Stds, and I only had to wait < 2 months. Imagining having to wait 4+ months would be unbearable, and I probably would have left the denim game before even getting started.
LD finished funding their KS on August 3rd, with 489 backers. Hope LD gets on track sooner than later, because it's hard to get a positive review no matter how good the product is, if they take like half a year to make.
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Post by Old26 on Dec 23, 2014 9:47:02 GMT -6
I'm just hoping mine wasn't lost somewhere due to the old site going down / paper orders. A friend of mine ordered after me and he just received shipping, his order number was 11694. Another ordered a pair of jeans before me and a belt. The belt shipped, there are no signs of the jeans. Another ordered before me, by a day, and hasn't seen anything. No customization of sizing, never once contacted regarding changes, nothing. His is #11629. Mine is a few orders after, but I asked for some sizing alterations of the spec.. #11632 Obviously items are highly out of order and are shipping, but everything we've been told doesn't exactly match up to what has been happening. This was explained by DD (Sal). So, once again fellas, orders discussions will be held in PM or emails. Last time this will be addressed. Future posts about "where is my order" are going in the bin. |
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. It's rare when a business can get such candid feedback about what the root cause is of customer dissatisfaction. Companies pay millions to consultants to find the "voice of the customer.". Well, here it is for Lawless. Free for the taking. Hopefully (there's that word again) they not be only listen but also act. 