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Post by Dirty_Denim on Dec 19, 2014 15:07:58 GMT -6
Sal, I appreciate all the updates and future of the company, but I hope you realize it's very frustrating to hear about the future when they have nothing to do with the current orders on the backlog. As stated a few posts ago, people are irked that they were quoted a 4-6 then 6-8 then 8-10..with no end in sight as it seems. Keep doing what you're doing, we just hope things smooth out. When I speak about anything in the future it is always about the betterment of Lawless. I am not advertising sales in here. I never ever do that. I post what I think you guys would like to know. I also post what I know you guys will not like to hear. But I never spin anything to make you want to invest some more. Im a sales man not a car sales man  I was shocked that they did that. I mean i understand there were threats to peoples lives but no way should we be changing what we find funny. I mean comedians poke fun at everyone and everything. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2014 17:15:51 GMT -6
Firstly I am invested in LD. So take this as constructive criticism.
Sal, your letter does nothing for my confidence. You have made great efforts here to shore up the LD reputation, but nothing would do that more than meeting your stated turn times. It only exposes some very poor planning. When you had meetings about the relaunch didn't someone say "what if we can't keep up". I'd bet your production manager did. Under promise and over deliver! LD should have adjusted wait times before launch.
I think the gustin model is more a novelty than anything. It is not scalable and it is showing now. Before long I think the stock store will be the bulk of their business. Your model of low markup requires high volume. At the stated production and prices there is simply no way to sustain. I can't image you can get an LA facility up and running in less than 6 months (we'll see).
To think the owner of self edge is actively dogging you on here comes off as paranoid. While possible, not likely. I'm sure he has better things to do.
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Post by davelewis on Dec 19, 2014 18:07:49 GMT -6
It really all boils down to "show me the money"
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Post by Derek G on Dec 19, 2014 21:13:52 GMT -6
Personally, I don't want them to push their employees too hard, just to get our stuff quicker, as quality is likely to suffer for it. I imagine finding a skilled seamstress, is like finding an arrow head in a freshly plowed field, difficult to come by, but a treasure once you find it  I knew when I placed my first order, that I would be waiting a minimum of 2 months, and because LD doesn't use a service like skyblue, that it may be twice as long. I know many of you guys would say "I'd be fine with that if they would have stated it up front" , but that's part of the risk when consuming from a model like this, at least they aren't keeping us in the dark about it. Sal has shown us on IG how Roman is putting money back into his business to grow it. I have complete faith, that in the end, Lawless will become everything he intends it to be, that we will all get our orders, and most of us will buy LD products on a regular basis. When will that happen? I don't know, but, because of the transparency shown by Roman and Sal, I'm positive it will happen. It may take another year before things get settled to an (what we would call) acceptable turn around. Could take up to 5 for it to be where Roman envisions it. I personally know a guy who started in demolition and clean up, with nothing for than 4 guys and a beat up piece of shit pick up truck, and some plastic garbage cans to throw the debris in, and load the truck. He kept putting the money he earned back into his little company, and eventually bought a new truck and hired some more guys. 6-7 years later, this guy had the largest fleet of roll off dumpsters in the metro area, and is now a multi millionaire. I think LD is at the sanford and son pick up stage right now...well, maybe the new truck stage. What I'm saying is, I've seen it happen before, and I'm sure I'm seeing it happen again, because Roman, just like the guy I know that grew his business, are hard working people, that had a vision, and worked their asses off to make it happen. Do you guys think that Sal would uproot his family, and leave his beloved Brooklyn, if he didn't see something special happening here? I think we need to remember how a new business grows and show some patience and understanding. I wonder how long it took for Gustin to complete every KS order? Anyone know? or if they had all the KS orders out before they set up shop on the web and started accepting backers? I really would like to know, because it was before I became a backer of Gustin jeans. I'm not trying to be an ass here guys, I understand where your coming from,I would just like to see folks be a little more understanding and have a little faith, and cheer them on. They need our support, not doubts and bitching and moaning. We'll all get our stuff in time, and if you don't want to wait, buy off the shelf, or hit up the B/s/t. I'm really sorry if this pisses anyone off, because that isn't what I'm trying to do. I know someone is likely to call me out as a fanboy and that I have my head in the clouds, or something like that, but I don't care. I'm used to it I like rooting for the underdog, and cheering on the guy who's giving it his best. A lot of us did, and still do the same for Gustin, and I would say the same thing for Ciano Farmer too. OK I'm done, back to your regularly scheduled program ... |
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Post by Old26 on Dec 19, 2014 21:52:49 GMT -6
Whatever you "are" I like your post man. Well said.
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Post by Derek G on Dec 19, 2014 22:06:04 GMT -6
Whatever you "are" I like your post man. Well said. Thanks Scott If your referring to my avatar, thats Krampus, Santa Claus' side kick. If you were good, Santa gives you presents. If you were bad, Krampus will beat your ass with birch sticks, and if you were really bad, he'll put you in his sack and take you to hell  It's and old European tradition |
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Post by Old26 on Dec 19, 2014 22:10:40 GMT -6
Whatever you "are" I like your post man. Well said. Thanks Scott If your referring to my avatar, thats Krampus, Santa Claus' side kick. If you were good, Santa gives you presents. If you were bad, Krampus will beat your ass with birch sticks, and if you were really bad, he'll put you in his sack and take you to hell It's and old European tradition No, I meant the self-reference of possibly being a fanboy. I didn't read it like that at all, and in fact it was very nice. I think we all should reflect on what it must be like to take on an endeavor like this. DD quit and packed his bags to work on this. I wish I had those balls myself. I have utmost respect for the guys here that are starting out making great gear. That goes for the guys making stuff at home too. We all win when our countrymen take to a small business. I'm done with overseas crap imported so we can save a few bucks. Of course I haven't actually managed to free my life if it, but that's my dream. I know others here feel the same way... |
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Post by Derek G on Dec 19, 2014 22:38:34 GMT -6
No, I meant the self-reference of possibly being a fanboy. I didn't read it like that at all, and in fact it was very nice. I think we all should reflect on what it must be like to take on an endeavor like this. DD quit and packed his bags to work on this. I wish I had those balls myself. I have utmost respect for the guys here that are starting out making great gear. That goes for the guys making stuff at home too. We all win when our countrymen take to a small business. I'm done with overseas crap imported so we can save a few bucks. Of course I haven't actually managed to free my life if it, but that's my dream. I know others here feel the same way... I dream of the day when the U.S. is a powerhouse in manufacturing again. I remember when made in Japan was like made in China is today, when a Curtis Mathes was the best TV you could buy. When all of your clothes were made in the U.S. and were union made. Dunno if those days will ever return, but I can dream Hell, Sears used to make most of the stuff in their catalog themselves at one time. Things were meant to last then...nowdays, we just throw it away and buy another. Lets face it, if we weren't the powerhouse of manufacturing that we were, there's no way we would have won either of the world wars. I'm afraid it won't ever happen again though...judging by the clowns they hire where I work, it just seems no one takes any pride in their work anymore. Management tells me, that's the kind of people we get applying for jobs. Hell it's tough to find anyone who can pass a drug screening and a background check anymore I guess, so they just take any warm body just to fill the void. It's a sad state our country is in, to me anyways. There are glimmers of hope though. Maybe I'm just getting cynical as I age, but it seems to me that things are devolving here. EDIT Sorry I hijacked the review thread |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2014 23:22:00 GMT -6
I agree with the sentiment and believe more people are buying american again. I spread the word on american brands whenever possible. I too remember when the Japanese imports became prominent and the bumper sticker "be american, buy american". In hindsight those products were great compared to most from China. The last time I heard we have slipped into third behind Germany in manufacturing.
The reason I have ordered from LD is I believe in what they are trying to do and only wish them the best.
No business can succeed if they don't do what they say. If you can't meet a deadline it is expected to notify the customer in advance and be prepared to meet a new one. This is where LD needs to improve. Your word is your bond and excuses are like....well you know the rest.
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Dec 19, 2014 23:38:15 GMT -6
Firstly I am invested in LD. So take this as constructive criticism. Sal, your letter does nothing for my confidence. You have made great efforts here to shore up the LD reputation, but nothing would do that more than meeting your stated turn times. It only exposes some very poor planning. When you had meetings about the relaunch didn't someone say "what if we can't keep up". I'd bet your production manager did. Under promise and over deliver! LD should have adjusted wait times before launch. I think the gustin model is more a novelty than anything. It is not scalable and it is showing now. Before long I think the stock store will be the bulk of their business. Your model of low markup requires high volume. At the stated production and prices there is simply no way to sustain. I can't image you can get an LA facility up and running in less than 6 months (we'll see). To think the owner of self edge is actively dogging you on here comes off as paranoid. While possible, not likely. I'm sure he has better things to do. This is not about anyone's confidence in LD. I can't sell confidence to a bunch of people that have't received anything yet. Im a bit smarter than that. I know its as simple as people getting their orders to spell any doubts. I think people already got over the initial doubt that we can actually make a good product. I mean that was an issue only a few months ago and now look at how people are starting to trust we can make something good. We just need some time to improve on a few things. I post in here to tell you guys what goes on. If you guys think I use a forum with maybe 200 people to sell jeans to then you are completely wrong. This is not a Lawless marketing tool but a place I came to before Lawless. I also come in here not Sal the Lawless employee but Dirty Denim the guy who got married in his Iron Heart jeans, I'm the guy who wore denim every day pretty much & sold my old boss that jeans have 5 pockets that you buy from Levi's and that denim is not jeans, jeans are jeans so i could wear denim chinos LOL What I am trying to say is I am a member before anything and I won't sell people on shit. I try to figure out as much as I can the same way you might if you were to stop in the shop to check things out. Of course I know I am a representative of LD so I need to be 2 people when I am in here but I am a member before anything. As for the paranoia, I only said that because we have already had a few industry people make their way into forums saying a few things that were meant to bash LD. If you think members are not someone else then you do not know the industry |
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Post by ickes on Dec 20, 2014 0:31:48 GMT -6
well gents, if I may I would like to get back to an actual review here as I have received my first pair of Lawless jeans today. This is a promo pair I received in a 15.2 oz Cone denim sewn up with standard copper thread and copper black buttons. Guys, LD jeans are quality, make no mistake. The stitching is great, no flaws at all. All of the details LD uses really add a touch of class imo. These came with a nice, thick natural veg tan patch which is my favorite. The triple needle stitching down the inseam looks fantastic. The pockets are a huge improvement over Gs, nice and deep and the pocket bags are thick and sturdy. The waistband has some great touches as well including double needle stitching and an extra beltloop in the back. The clam shell stitching (I think that's what it's called?) on the fly looks killer! These also came with a double stitched cuff which I actually really like and would consider getting on some future pairs. Buttons and rivets are all nice and the lined back pockets are a great touch as well. Also the ID on the coin pocket is slick. The fabric itself is great as well but I am a sucker for Cone denims in this weight range. These look and feel very similar to the Gustin Heavy Americans. Super crisp, super starchy, close enough in weight that it's hard to tell the difference, and same feel and shade. Just a great, no nonsense, straight up pair of Cone denim. You can't beat that imo. Now the bad news for me, they don't fit. I was expecting this when they arrived as I've gotten bigger recently so I'm not super bummed. I already changed the size once on these and I've made so many other changes to my other orders that I felt bad hitting up LD to change the size on these again. So I'm going to follow in @romans and @mattberts good natured footsteps and pass on some holiday cheer and give these away free of charge to the first person who either PMs me or replies in this thread. I will cover shipping to the lower 48. These are a size 33 straight w/34 inseam. Measurements are as follows; waist; 32.5" thigh; 23.5" knee; 17" cuff; just over 15" inseam; 33.75" front rise; 10.75" back rise; just under 14.75" And as usual, potato cam pics comin at ya!; imgur.com/a/Mc91fps; my oldest daughter (13 1/2 years) was sitting in my room shootin the shit with me as I was measuring these. She knows I frequent this forum and have a denim obsession. As I was measuring the cuff she asked why I was measuring that and I told her that people care about the cuff measurement and it makes a big difference. She said "really?!!...who the heck cares about a cuff measurement?! You and your jean freak buddies?!"....lol.. So, my fellow jean freak buddies, hit me up if you want these. First reply takes them. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 0:40:14 GMT -6
Nice ickes...too bad they don't fit (not that you needed another pair of ~15-16oz cone ), good to see you passing the forward. That veg tan patch is awesome. I didn't realize that was an option (unless it isn't and you lucked out) |
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Post by Winterland on Dec 20, 2014 1:01:17 GMT -6
well gents, if I may I would like to get back to an actual review here as I have received my first pair of Lawless jeans today. This is a promo pair I received in a 15.2 oz Cone denim sewn up with standard copper thread and copper black buttons. Guys, LD jeans are quality, make no mistake. The stitching is great, no flaws at all. All of the details LD uses really add a touch of class imo. These came with a nice, thick natural veg tan patch which is my favorite. The triple needle stitching down the inseam looks fantastic. The pockets are a huge improvement over Gs, nice and deep and the pocket bags are thick and sturdy. The waistband has some great touches as well including double needle stitching and an extra beltloop in the back. The clam shell stitching (I think that's what it's called?) on the fly looks killer! These also came with a double stitched cuff which I actually really like and would consider getting on some future pairs. Buttons and rivets are all nice and the lined back pockets are a great touch as well. Also the ID on the coin pocket is slick. The fabric itself is great as well but I am a sucker for Cone denims in this weight range. These look and feel very similar to the Gustin Heavy Americans. Super crisp, super starchy, close enough in weight that it's hard to tell the difference, and same feel and shade. Just a great, no nonsense, straight up pair of Cone denim. You can't beat that imo. Now the bad news for me, they don't fit. I was expecting this when they arrived as I've gotten bigger recently so I'm not super bummed. I already changed the size once on these and I've made so many other changes to my other orders that I felt bad hitting up LD to change the size on these again. So I'm going to follow in @romans and @mattberts good natured footsteps and pass on some holiday cheer and give these away free of charge to the first person who either PMs me or replies in this thread. I will cover shipping to the lower 48. These are a size 33 straight w/34 inseam. Measurements are as follows; waist; 32.5" thigh; 23.5" knee; 17" cuff; just over 15" inseam; 33.75" front rise; 10.75" back rise; just under 14.75" And as usual, potato cam pics comin at ya!; imgur.com/a/Mc91fps; my oldest daughter (13 1/2 years) was sitting in my room shootin the shit with me as I was measuring these. She knows I frequent this forum and have a denim obsession. As I was measuring the cuff she asked why I was measuring that and I told her that people care about the cuff measurement and it makes a big difference. She said "really?!!...who the heck cares about a cuff measurement?! You and your jean freak buddies?!"....lol.. So, my fellow jean freak buddies, hit me up if you want these. First reply takes them. Jean Freak Buddies. Love it! Very cool you are passing these on. |
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Post by youwinatlife on Dec 20, 2014 1:23:18 GMT -6
Another shout out to my boy Dirty_Denim and Lawless. This doesn't come as a surprise, but more awesome customer service from these guys that makes life easy and the orders exciting. Thanks guys- I can't say enough about all of you! I'd like to give super mad props to Sal too, He's been awesome. I tried and tried not to make any changes to my orders, because I know he's really busy, but I think I've changed something on each one I'm pretty sure...no, I'm damn sure done hassling ya Sal I just wanted to chime in and tell all of you how great DD has been. He hasn't even yelled at me to knock it off already i'm in the same boat as you. multiple changes to order, all done without fuss. granted, these were only possibly because they're taking a while to get started on orders. but it's nice to know that when i get them they are going to be perfect. |
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Post by gusjin on Dec 20, 2014 1:40:27 GMT -6
well gents, if I may I would like to get back to an actual review here as I have received my first pair of Lawless jeans today. This is a promo pair I received in a 15.2 oz Cone denim sewn up with standard copper thread and copper black buttons. Guys, LD jeans are quality, make no mistake. The stitching is great, no flaws at all. All of the details LD uses really add a touch of class imo. These came with a nice, thick natural veg tan patch which is my favorite. The triple needle stitching down the inseam looks fantastic. The pockets are a huge improvement over Gs, nice and deep and the pocket bags are thick and sturdy. The waistband has some great touches as well including double needle stitching and an extra beltloop in the back. The clam shell stitching (I think that's what it's called?) on the fly looks killer! These also came with a double stitched cuff which I actually really like and would consider getting on some future pairs. Buttons and rivets are all nice and the lined back pockets are a great touch as well. Also the ID on the coin pocket is slick. The fabric itself is great as well but I am a sucker for Cone denims in this weight range. These look and feel very similar to the Gustin Heavy Americans. Super crisp, super starchy, close enough in weight that it's hard to tell the difference, and same feel and shade. Just a great, no nonsense, straight up pair of Cone denim. You can't beat that imo. Now the bad news for me, they don't fit. I was expecting this when they arrived as I've gotten bigger recently so I'm not super bummed. I already changed the size once on these and I've made so many other changes to my other orders that I felt bad hitting up LD to change the size on these again. So I'm going to follow in @romans and @mattberts good natured footsteps and pass on some holiday cheer and give these away free of charge to the first person who either PMs me or replies in this thread. I will cover shipping to the lower 48. These are a size 33 straight w/34 inseam. Measurements are as follows; waist; 32.5" thigh; 23.5" knee; 17" cuff; just over 15" inseam; 33.75" front rise; 10.75" back rise; just under 14.75" And as usual, potato cam pics comin at ya!; imgur.com/a/Mc91fps; my oldest daughter (13 1/2 years) was sitting in my room shootin the shit with me as I was measuring these. She knows I frequent this forum and have a denim obsession. As I was measuring the cuff she asked why I was measuring that and I told her that people care about the cuff measurement and it makes a big difference. She said "really?!!...who the heck cares about a cuff measurement?! You and your jean freak buddies?!"....lol.. So, my fellow jean freak buddies, hit me up if you want these. First reply takes them. I'm not surprised to hear about the quality Sucks to hear they don't fit Worryingly I think they will fit me (I've ordered a 34 waist), how do you measure the waist? Lay flat and double? If so, and they haven't gone, please may I take them? There can't be many pairs across the pond (I'll cover shipping of course) PS if these do fit, I'll pass on my 34's when they arrive |
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Post by thomasss on Dec 20, 2014 1:57:08 GMT -6
@ ickes : can you tell me your regular size on gustin?
Did you use the " size one up from gustin" rule for LD?
Thanx
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Post by ickes on Dec 20, 2014 2:07:04 GMT -6
gusjin; yes, I layed flat and doubled to measure the waist. I used the same measuring guidelines Gustin uses. There were two ahead of you but they didn't work out so if you want them you are next in line . Let me know and we can work out payment for shipping.
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Post by gusjin on Dec 20, 2014 2:09:09 GMT -6
gusjin; yes, I layed flat and doubled to measure the waist. I used the same measuring guidelines Gustin uses. There were two ahead of you but they didn't work out so if you want them you are next in line . Let me know and we can work out payment for shipping. No worries, just let me know |
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Post by ickes on Dec 20, 2014 2:11:52 GMT -6
thomasss; yes, for this pair I did go one up from my usual GUSTIN size (32 straight) however my GUSTIN size has now changed since I ordered these as I have gained some weight (muscle mass). I could barely get these over my ass but once I finally did I could button them but it was much too tight for my liking. My best advice for LD is to measure your actual waist and order that size just like Roman says. So for my four other pairs of LDs I ordered a 35 straight.
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Post by Winterland on Dec 20, 2014 2:30:08 GMT -6
Sal, Lawless Denim's kickstarter campaign was couched in the following terms:
"80k - 62 new machines ($800 ea.) + 2 new cutting tables ($6,000 ea.) + 2 new cutters ($1,500 ea.) + pattern development & grading software ($15,000)"
Since Lawless almost achieved the $80,000 goal I assume you came close to acquiring the machines stated above. How many of the machines have been acquired? I have asked in the past how many seamstresses you have employed and did not get an answer, in the spirit of transparency could you answer my question now?
I won't bore everyone with my past predictions, but I will say things are playing out as I expected. I won't tell you guys how to run your business since there seems to be some real high caliber part timers here that seem to think they have all of the answers. Suffice it to say, sometimes it is better to stop digging.
We are not doing this to deprecate him.
There have been numerous other arguments going on that we don't like seeing. Please try to be gentleman.
Meaning we can all even go as far as not putting up posts that we know make others upset.
Please do not debate these issues or our actions.
Thanks Winterland and your Mods. |
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Post by thomasss on Dec 20, 2014 2:41:17 GMT -6
thomasss; yes, for this pair I did go one up from my usual GUSTIN size (32 straight) however my GUSTIN size has now changed since I ordered these as I have gained some weight (muscle mass). I could barely get these over my ass but once I finally did I could button them but it was much too tight for my liking. My best advice for LD is to measure your actual waist and order that size just like Roman says. So for my four other pairs of LDs I ordered a 35 straight. Thank you ickes... But here is my problem : i used to order 34 in Gustin (straight or slim) and they fit perfect. Everytime i buy a pant ; it is a 34 and no problem... When i use a tape to mesure my waist : i get a... 38 !!! i don't know if i mesure it at the good place, that's why i'm uncertain. i mesure it at diffrenet points and get between 37-38... i talk to ciano farmer for ordering the 30oz bull denim and they told me that i should go for a 32 if i'm a 34 gustin !!! (so for sure, i'm between 32 and 38, a good point for beginning = well, on the few reviews i saw here, people that are happy with the LD fit go to the "one up from gustin" size rule. So i made the same. It is strange because sometimes i read "go one up from gustin" is good and i read too, people like me that have to size up 2, 3 or even 4 sizes more (like Dirty_Denim for eample). I DON'T KNOW !!!! But if it is LD 35 ant it strech maybe, if i'm very positive, of 2" maximum, it will still be 37 so not good... Is should maybe go for a LD 36 : larget is better than too little. I'm in France, if i get my pants in the end of february (ordered middle of november) and i have to get them back and then they have to get it back to me, i will have it for next christmas !!! YOU, FOLKS HERE, WHAT WILL YOU DO?  ? |
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Post by Winterland on Dec 20, 2014 2:54:40 GMT -6
thomasss; yes, for this pair I did go one up from my usual GUSTIN size (32 straight) however my GUSTIN size has now changed since I ordered these as I have gained some weight (muscle mass). I could barely get these over my ass but once I finally did I could button them but it was much too tight for my liking. My best advice for LD is to measure your actual waist and order that size just like Roman says. So for my four other pairs of LDs I ordered a 35 straight. Thank you ickes... But here is my problem : i used to order 34 in Gustin (straight or slim) and they fit perfect. Everytime i buy a pant ; it is a 34 and no problem... When i use a tape to mesure my waist : i get a... 38 !!! i don't know if i mesure it at the good place, that's why i'm uncertain. i mesure it at diffrenet points and get between 37-38... i talk to ciano farmer for ordering the 30oz bull denim and they told me that i should go for a 32 if i'm a 34 gustin !!! (so for sure, i'm between 32 and 38, a good point for beginning = well, on the few reviews i saw here, people that are happy with the LD fit go to the "one up from gustin" size rule. So i made the same. It is strange because sometimes i read "go one up from gustin" is good and i read too, people like me that have to size up 2, 3 or even 4 sizes more (like DirtyD for eample). I DON'T KNOW !!!! But if it is LD 35 ant it strech maybe, if i'm very positive, of 2" maximum, it will still be 37 so not good... Is should maybe go for a LD 36 : larget is better than too little. I'm in France, if i get my pants in the end of february (ordered middle of november) and i have to get them back and then they have to get it back to me, i will have it for next christmas !!! YOU, FOLKS HERE, WHAT WILL YOU DO? ? I want to know what the exact measurements are of the jeans/shirt I am ordering. I then order based on measurements of jeans/shirt I have that gives me the fit I want. As you pointed out measuring your actual waist seems to have more room for error than measuring jeans or a shirt. |
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Post by thomasss on Dec 20, 2014 3:00:17 GMT -6
I want to know what the exact measurements are of the jeans/shirt I am ordering. I then order based on measurements of jeans/shirt I have that gives me the fit I want. As you pointed out measuring your actual waist seems to have more room for error than measuring jeans or a shirt. If i measure my gustin Flat, i get 18", so 36 is good : my LD 35 will stretch to 36, good... If a measure my gustin on me with the tape via the belt loop, i get 39, that should correspond to 37-38 : so not good !!! Am i the only one that can't manage to measure wel !!! Dumb... |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 6:30:57 GMT -6
Firstly I am invested in LD. So take this as constructive criticism. Sal, your letter does nothing for my confidence. You have made great efforts here to shore up the LD reputation, but nothing would do that more than meeting your stated turn times. It only exposes some very poor planning. When you had meetings about the relaunch didn't someone say "what if we can't keep up". I'd bet your production manager did. Under promise and over deliver! LD should have adjusted wait times before launch. I think the gustin model is more a novelty than anything. It is not scalable and it is showing now. Before long I think the stock store will be the bulk of their business. Your model of low markup requires high volume. At the stated production and prices there is simply no way to sustain. I can't image you can get an LA facility up and running in less than 6 months (we'll see). To think the owner of self edge is actively dogging you on here comes off as paranoid. While possible, not likely. I'm sure he has better things to do. This is not about anyone's confidence in LD. I can't sell confidence to a bunch of people that have't received anything yet. Im a bit smarter than that. I know its as simple as people getting their orders to spell any doubts. I think people already got over the initial doubt that we can actually make a good product. I mean that was an issue only a few months ago and now look at how people are starting to trust we can make something good. We just need some time to improve on a few things. I post in here to tell you guys what goes on. If you guys think I use a forum with maybe 200 people to sell jeans to then you are completely wrong. This is not a Lawless marketing tool but a place I came to before Lawless. I also come in here not Sal the Lawless employee but Dirty Denim the guy who got married in his Iron Heart jeans, I'm the guy who wore denim every day pretty much & sold my old boss that jeans have 5 pockets that you buy from Levi's and that denim is not jeans, jeans are jeans so i could wear denim chinos LOL What I am trying to say is I am a member before anything and I won't sell people on shit. I try to figure out as much as I can the same way you might if you were to stop in the shop to check things out. Of course I know I am a representative of LD so I need to be 2 people when I am in here but I am a member before anything. As for the paranoia, I only said that because we have already had a few industry people make their way into forums saying a few things that were meant to bash LD. If you think members are not someone else then you do not know the industry My post is simply a comment on your post (what I would consider to be an open letter). I did not use the word sell, nor insult your intelligence and did not intend to. You can't have it both ways. As a brand rep everything you post online concerning the textile industry has to be looked at in that light. I did admit it's possible for the competition to be hiding online but it's poor decorum to use someone's full proper name without having full knowledge. Some bridges are better left intact. I really don't think any of this should be in this thread. Why not a LD news thread or something similar? |
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Dec 20, 2014 9:39:18 GMT -6
I agree with you wholeheartedly. I have been trying my best to size people based on the rules we know from sizing all other brands. What I try to get from a customer is a few things.
1) I ask what their current favorite fitting jeans are & why
2) I ask what their tag reads on those jeans & the fit if the brand style doesn't tell me what it is
3) I ask for a measurement of the waist, thigh and lower leg from the jeans (2 different pairs if they have em)
4) I ask whether they have been washed and how long ago if yes
5) I ask them to try the jeans on and tell me what areas are perfect and what are ill fitting & why
6) I try to find measurements of the brands to match them to what the cust told me and then against the Lawless fit charts
I do that for every customer who needs me to.
If you can't get someone or myself to do this, I suggest you do it your self. It is very easy to figure out what size you should be if you just take the time to do it. Do not skip a measurement like the calf because you think it doesnt matter. A good fit starts at the bottom and goes up. The waist means nothing and is the least important measurement when buying a pair of jeans. How is that possible you ask? If you cant get the jean past your ankle, calf, knee or thigh you won't even know if the waist really fits. Many many customers say the jeans we sent do not fit their waist but it is the thigh and everything else they likely skipped on. Not saying any of you did this. I am posting this for the betterment of future sizing
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It's and old European tradition 
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