Is Gustin still a good deal?

However, we're comparing companies that commission the milling of custom fabrics to companies that are using brokers to purchase fabrics. Recently, seeing things like pink selvedge IDs and such, I think some of these mills have been farming out some of their fabrics -- for example the double-cloth PBJ fabric that Lawless seemed to have gotten a roll of -- and selling them to brokers. I like that Gustin is willing to eschew customary fabrics and make things like the 11oz Japanese herringbone jeans, as you end up with something truly unique that may end up being only a couple hundred pairs of jeans ever, since you don't know if the fabric will ever be run again, or whether Gustin will be the same company when they do run that fabric. You take on more risk as the consumer, but I've ended up with some really cool stuff that I don't see a traditional Japanese manufacturer or a company like RailCar ever making. It also has the ability to shake things up a bit and you end up with Iron Heart considering 11 oz fabrics, or working to innovate and make an 18oz that wears like 14oz by using money-pulp. All this stuff is cool, and didn't start happening until all these upstarts kicked the jeans industry in the pants, so I also see value in that. 

Are they the best jeans? Probably not. They do some cool stuff which is why we all support them, and if it makes waves in a stodgy textile industry I'm all for it.

I'll grant you, fabric costs may not be as significant as labor. But, their labor costs have been figured in all along. The reduction in raw material costs are more recent. Any Japanese fabric purchased recently would reduce their costs.

No doubt some of Gustins fabrics are not high on the interesting scale. I wish I didn't buy a couple pairs. Ie: japan standard, double black and I wish i bought more iron heart

Dont really agree with these points....just because something is rare and one of a kind does not mean that it is good.  Also, not sure exactly what 11oz fabric you are referring too that Iron Heart is considering but Iron Heart has used lighter fabrics for years in their Chinos and also under the Triple Works line, before Gustin even had their KS campaign.  Of course "light" is open to interpretation and I'm not saying that Iron Heart is producing 8 oz denim or anything, but I don't believe that the fact Iron Heart is considering an 11oz fabric has anything to do with a company like Gustin shaking things up.  

I'm not knocking Gustin at all.  I have a lot of their jeans and I use them for work on a daily basis but I have and will continue to sell quite a few pairs off (just sold some the other day) as I have learned over the last couple of years what I like and the qualities that the more expensive companie have to offer.  

I find it odd that Gustin puts little to no effort in branding. Everything about the final product is minimalist, but not from an aesthetic "cool" sense. I remember my surprise at receiving my first order, a simple black bag, no tags, virtually no branding inside the denim, nothing to show that these were made by a company proud of its handiwork. In contrast, Ciano Farmer offers denim at the same or lower price, and you can tell CF cares about its product. Little things like including a swatch of denim to stamped labels, nice tags, etc. all of these elements add something extra to the product. I am still in awe of my Momotaro Copper Labels, from the awesome pocket lining to the tags. Japan Blues come with a pocket square/bandana, a very cool detail. Gustin could have been so much more, so much potential.

At the same time, I'm not trying to discount what the more expensive players are doing. However it's hard to remove price from the value argument if fit is irrelevant. The 16.5oz cone that my American Sixteeners is rarely run by one of these other brands, however I like it quite a bit more than the common red-ID 16.5oz cone. So if I'm enjoying the fit on these Gustin jeans that I would have had to pay at least twice the price in order to get it in any other brand, I think I'm coming out ahead, and it's a superb value. I have several pairs of jeans that other companies either passed over or would never make, or would MAYBE make into a workshirt or a western shirt, and enjoy them quite a bit, fit/finish/fabric. 

My point is more this: if you like the fit, and do your research and learn about the fabrics and what you like/don't like, then Gustin still offers some good values. 13.5oz Japanese denim for $100 that I wait three months for? No thanks. More interesting fabrics that I can buy from other brands with an unknown fit (for me) for twice the price? I think the value in that is inherent. Having moved on to bigger and more expensive brands, you can't forget the education you received by playing the Gustin game at 33% of the cost. Knowing what you do now, you can be relatively confident buying a $250 pair of jeans online and having a general understanding of what's coming. For a beginner in the selvedge market, if you keep an eye out for the sub-$100 offerings from Gustin I think there's still significant value to be had. If you're going to spend over $130 on denim from Gustin with the yen where it is, you should most certainly do your research, though, cause there are some great deals near that price point (+ maybe 25%) on known Japanese brands over at Rakuten which will likely have more interesting details to a denim-head.

Yep. Both ickes and exophobe pretty much nailed it. I like the variety of fabrics, their fit is good, and (as far as the denim and chinos go) the prices are still good. But, the wait times, the missed commitments with little to no concession is hard for me to stick with.

It comes up from time to time that since Gustin refuses to disclose the mills their fabric comes from that they must be using lower tier mills. The point being discussed here, though, is the thought that the reason nobody uses the fabrics that Gustin turns into jeans is that they're not premium fabrics that the top manufacturers use, or even seconds that the big names refused.

the way I see it, there's only so much that can be wrong with these fabrics since they have to come off of selvedge looms, and when something comes with a bunch of flaws Gustin will take them back, and if you insist they tend to give refunds instead of store credit. I like the weird fabrics that I have gotten from Gustin that nobody sells (I've looked for a number of them), and since I like the fit I consider them a good brand that continues to make products I like.

Those taupe linens, though, I'm gonna have to reach out about them cause it's been six weeks (I believe) and sizing still hasn't locked.

yep.

I'm not saying ignorance is bliss, but why accuse G of using subpar fabrics or using subpar mills if we don't really know? I'm all for inviting and finding out, but until we do find out, why not keep the conspiracy theories to a minimum?

something tells me it wouldn't be too difficult for regular buyers to find the desired fabric from the mills. there isn't an infinite number of suppliers.

The mythical 32oz and Carbonxcoffee