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Post by stinky on Oct 8, 2014 9:39:47 GMT -6
I just read an article about Gustin on freeenterprise.com (I think it's related to the US Chamber of Commerce), and one quote from Josh really stood out to me: "'We’ve expanded 100% from word of mouth,' Gustin says. 'It’s all organic growth, because we don’t like buying customers. We like having people come to us who want to support us. It’s a lot of people who have had a good experience telling their friends, and we love that.'" I've said it many times, but the radio silence on the sizing and quality issues has baffled me. Jeans that come in under spec. Shirt construction issues. Bar tacks. Patches. Hemming. Belt loops. Etc. No customer service phone number. No communication from the owners where it previously existed. No involvement in their own forum. New products continue to be developed yet the flaws in the current products persist. Campaigns that used to sell out in seconds linger for days and weeks. As someone pointed out, a $1000 fade contest is out there and the HAs are still on the board--75% and 4 days to go. They want customers to spread the word for them, yet they seemingly can't be bothered to address their own customers. Word of mouth works when you are fulfilling expectations and pleasing your customers. It's quite the opposite when you don't. I want to be an ambassador for the brand. I want them to succeed. I want to recommend them to my friends and family. Yet, when I have, the items they have received have been flawed, and thus my judgement is questioned by those who previously trusted me. I really hope they get back to basics and fix their problems, because when they get it right, they knock it out of the park. Good luck, Gustin. You can find the article here: www.freeenterprise.com/entrepreneur/designer-clothes-13-price-gustin-s-innovative-retail-model-makes-it-possible |
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Post by matt on Oct 8, 2014 10:49:45 GMT -6
Well said. I agree that the "insta-backs" have slowed significantly, but there's still a weekend influx of buyers that typically wrap up those near-finished campaigns. And, as we've seen in the shop, 75% with 4 days to go will conveniently linger for 5 or 6 days to complete the campaign. I don't think that's an automated feature of their site.
Their success is that they know their audience. Consider us as the vocal minority who populates the forums on G, here and elsewhere - but what percentage of their market base do we make up? 20%? 40%? Think about all of the customers who don't bother with the community chat and who've had no sizing issues. I for one have only had one issue - that was the initial BluexBlack run. I actually received the prototype pair (the one used in the photos) so I received my denim 2 days after the backing of that campaign was complete. I was stoked, but they fit like a 32 slim and not a 33 slim (as with the entire run). My point - I took my credit and applied it to another pair, and gave them another try when the BluexBlacks returned. No issues on round 2. So, assuming that's the case with non-forum folks, a 90% success rate (or even 75%) isn't a bad model to work with. Granted they may have lost customers who had their first pair be the runs with issues, but we don't know any of that data.
I am completely on board with you for being a brand ambassador. I wear my 10 pairs essentially 90% of the time. I'm a walking billboard. But I do want to advise anyone to proceed with caution as there has been silence from the people behind the FB/Instagram accounts.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 10:53:10 GMT -6
i agree with nearly everything other than the product movement/stagnation. i've actually been kind of surprised at how steadily new offerings are getting funded. back when things were flying from the store pages there were fewer offerings (both product types and offerings), and those were only refreshed twice a week. now there is a 3-4x/week refresh of new products that somehow keep getting funded with very few exceptions. the grey silks offered earlier in the week weren't gone in seconds, but were fully backed in the same day.
some of the repeat 'staple' items like the solid oxfords or even the heavy americans do tend to move more slowly, but that's not surprising. the heavy americans were offered something like 3 times in the weeks leading up to the fade contest. people who wanted them likely got them. the fade contest isn't likely to draw many new customers considering that no one from Gustin has mentioned it or promoted it since the initial email went out. there haven't been any public notices of people sending in photos, and then they grandfathered everyone who already had pairs into the contest...reducing the motivation to back a new pair. considering the lack of enthusiasm and communication/promotion of the contest...coupled with the year long duration to keep up any sort of enthusiasm...it's kind of a joke.
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Post by Old26 on Oct 8, 2014 11:08:25 GMT -6
My biggest disappointment is that Gustin while hearing our calls for a Work Shirt, didn't seem at all in tune with what we really wanted and asked for - ad-naseum. It's not like we were vague. Some are good, many not even close to what many asked for. It was like, "we hear you, but WE decide on what you get". OK, that's fine, but don't be disappointed in us or the sales if they don't fly. Of course my main reason is not having any in my size, but I think now I'm going to give that baton to LD for a shot at WS dominance for me.
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Post by ickes on Oct 8, 2014 11:12:06 GMT -6
My biggest issue with all of this, as I have said before, is that not only are there glaring QC issues but NOBODY on the G team (specifically Josh himself) have stepped up and made any comments regarding their poor quality. It wouldn't bother me as much and I would still have more support for them if they were transparent, active in the community, owned up to their issues and worked to fix them. None of this is being done so it multiplies the QC issue IMO.
It's at the point now where I get the feeling that they (G team) feel they are "above" us and that they don't really care as long as profits are raking in. This is my honest opinion right now and I hope I am wrong but there feels like a complete disconnect as ScottBot mentioned the other day. This is leaving a bad taste in my mouth for a company that I have heavily supported over the past year.
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Post by Old26 on Oct 8, 2014 11:19:05 GMT -6
You know Icksey, I think that I am right about why they're not responding on the Gustin forums. I sense that there is disappointment with "us" over the work shirt. Sorry, but I won't accept that. Many gave detailed feedback for months - even posted tons of pics in Dropbox. There was nothing vague about what we were craving. I still felt bad though. I wanted to like/buy/support that effort. But to me, Gustin are a more preppy-style and I think they are not willing to go far enough outside of that model to make things most of us want. I firmly now believe that Gustin does not see the likes of me as a target group - which of course is fine and their right!
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Post by DigDug on Oct 8, 2014 11:20:19 GMT -6
I'm surprised they haven't said anything. I get the feeling there going to let this burn out (there's only so many post the community can make and only for so many days).
In doing so many of the Original Gustins are leaving. Look back at the first pages of post and see so many active OG that have gone. I wonder if there just letting the frustration clean the community to allow for new members.
For me it's going to come down to the WS, its a new sew shop, there first run. Its gotta be right!
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Post by DigDug on Oct 8, 2014 11:23:22 GMT -6
Also, I would back those 18ozZims in a heart beat if there was a simple clarification on sizing/returns. At this point it only backer beware.
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Post by davelewis on Oct 8, 2014 11:30:34 GMT -6
I'm with you guys on all accounts. We are the group that supported G early on, and pushed hard for heavy denim, work shirts, etc. I have kind of felt though, that they were telling us things we wanted to hear. I look at how Gustins lack of response to issues is kind of like communication in marriage. One spouse,"us", have been complaining about things we haven't been liking, and the other spouse, "gustin" has tuned us out. One day, you wake up and find that the other has left.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 11:35:33 GMT -6
My biggest issue with all of this, as I have said before, is that not only are there glaring QC issues but NOBODY on the G team (specifically Josh himself) have stepped up and made any comments regarding their poor quality. It wouldn't bother me as much and I would still have more support for them if they were transparent, active in the community, owned up to their issues and worked to fix them. None of this is being done so it multiplies the QC issue IMO. It's at the point now where I get the feeling that they (G team) feel they are "above" us and that they don't really care as long as profits are raking in. This is my honest opinion right now and I hope I am wrong but there feels like a complete disconnect as ScottBot mentioned the other day. This is leaving a bad taste in my mouth for a company that I have heavily supported over the past year. i think it's true they'd get a lot more slack if there was a similar level of interaction that we had seen in the past. someone mentioned today that they should go check their yoke alignment. back when there was a question of yoke alignment and missing bar tacks there was a response that those complaining were nitpicking and that the product was still great and the company treated everyone right. of course that was in a time where comments by the company were fairly regular, input was at times sought out, there was a familiarity and (seeming) transparency that compelled people to pull for and at even at times defend them...not necessarily defend the 'brand', but defend those guys (and gal) that seemed to care and be involved. it seemed at the time like a work in progress to an extent...like you were part of the growth and evolution of the thing. now there is less of that communication, similar quality issues, and the only evolution has been an increased number of products rather than a refinement of what's available. one of the obvious results of that is their once ardent defenders have become some of the more vocal dissenters. |
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Post by matt on Oct 8, 2014 11:40:10 GMT -6
But by letting the angst "burn out", they are essentially saying "thanks for your money, take care!" versus getting in front of the concerns of the customer. In the past, the concerns have generated a State of the Union from Josh or Stephen, which was a means of reassurance. I'm sure something is forthcoming, but I do believe it's going to feel forced due to the delay of a response to this point.
As for the workshirts, Scott is spot-on. They are more of a "preppy" style. It's their niche. Not a bad niche to have. But that's the one they seem to be happy occupying. You would have thought for the advocacy that someone like Old26 has provided (co-chief fanboys along with Ickes in the community - that is meant as a compliment) that there would have been a custom hook up or something in "Old26 size" - but their silence was deafening.
Their input would go a long way. I think they are indeed riding out the storm and seeing what the other players in the market produce.
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Post by matt on Oct 8, 2014 11:43:40 GMT -6
It's an excellent case study for Roman. We can only hope he is able to maintain a high-level of transparency going forward as the business grows and potential issues arise.
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Post by wisdom on Oct 8, 2014 11:49:55 GMT -6
I agree with the comments about how Gustin appears to have migrated from a customer focused company to a profit focused company. It's been stated multiple times, and I'm too lazy to go back through the numerous threads to attribute proper credit, but perhaps they feel they're achieved a critical mass of followers and can afford to be a churn 'n earn type of business.
Perhaps we're all being unfair, but in the midst of radio silence from Gustin, especially since this is so different from the Gustin we knew when it was a humble startup/upstart, these types of beliefs and attitudes will not only fester, but continue to find their own supporting evidence for each person with any sort of opinion about them. This is our antihero over at the live chat on steroids (you guys who've been following know who the hyphenated, colorful character I refer to is), in terms of paranoid, obsessive, validation seeking behavior, but Gustin letting the sizing thing fester in the hopes that it dies out will only serve to gin up more examples of bad workmanship and an escalating debate which will lead, inevitably to further alienation, discontent, and the desire for an alternative.
Personally, the pictures of high-priced whiskey, stacks of money, wine tours, etc. don't help me relate, as much as I like those things. Don't get me wrong, discussing those things with the entity "Gustin," is different from discussing it with chill brahs like you guys.. and that includes Cody or Stephen or anybody at Gustin willing to engage us as themself. It makes me wonder how much they're actually making and whether they really see us as peers or see us as suckers.
-\Visdom
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 12:00:14 GMT -6
Well said. I agree that the "insta-backs" have slowed significantly, but there's still a weekend influx of buyers that typically wrap up those near-finished campaigns. And, as we've seen in the shop, 75% with 4 days to go will conveniently linger for 5 or 6 days to complete the campaign. I don't think that's an automated feature of their site. Their success is that they know their audience. Consider us as the vocal minority who populates the forums on G, here and elsewhere - but what percentage of their market base do we make up? 20%? 40%? Think about all of the customers who don't bother with the community chat and who've had no sizing issues. I for one have only had one issue - that was the initial BluexBlack run. I actually received the prototype pair (the one used in the photos) so I received my denim 2 days after the backing of that campaign was complete. I was stoked, but they fit like a 32 slim and not a 33 slim (as with the entire run). My point - I took my credit and applied it to another pair, and gave them another try when the BluexBlacks returned. No issues on round 2. So, assuming that's the case with non-forum folks, a 90% success rate (or even 75%) isn't a bad model to work with. Granted they may have lost customers who had their first pair be the runs with issues, but we don't know any of that data. I am completely on board with you for being a brand ambassador. I wear my 10 pairs essentially 90% of the time. I'm a walking billboard. But I do want to advise anyone to proceed with caution as there has been silence from the people behind the FB/Instagram accounts. Without those enablers (us), Gustin is not going to sell out anything quickly anymore. That is a fact. Back in the days, the Gustin community was almost like a boiler room. I could feel the same peer pressure like those High School days that everyone had to rush out to buy that Micheal Jacket album. Frankly, after I slowed down a bit and look past the hype, some of those products are overpriced with questionable quality that I will need to wait three months to get. Suddenly, it doesn't makes sense to me anymore. |
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Post by davelewis on Oct 8, 2014 12:03:30 GMT -6
You know Icksey, I think that I am right about why they're not responding on the Gustin forums. I sense that there is disappointment with "us" over the work shirt. Sorry, but I won't accept that. Many gave detailed feedback for months - even posted tons of pics in Dropbox. There was nothing vague about what we were craving. I still felt bad though. I wanted to like/buy/support that effort. But to me, Gustin are a more preppy-style and I think they are not willing to go far enough outside of that model to make things most of us want. I firmly now believe that Gustin does not see the likes of me as a target group - which of course is fine and their right! Dead on. How long did it take Roman to say "Scott, I'll make you one in your size"? |
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Post by Old26 on Oct 8, 2014 12:05:06 GMT -6
...Personally, the pictures of high-priced whiskey, stacks of money, wine tours, etc. don't help me relate, as much as I like those things. Don't get me wrong, discussing those things with the entity "Gustin," is different from discussing it with chill brahs like you guys.. and that includes Cody or Stephen or anybody at Gustin willing to engage us as themself. It makes me wonder how much they're actually making and whether they really see us as peers or see us as suckers. -\Visdom That. I stated this numerous times in the past. Fix your sh*t, then have a party. I don't come from a place & time where you party before the work is done. It wreaked of snobbery and f*ck off to me. As I've said (over and over), I'm likely not the target Gustin is looking for. I like those guys. They've been solid to me. But as a consumer, I've mentally moved on. If the likes of LD and others can fill the holes, I've got the will and money to jump. |
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Post by julian on Oct 8, 2014 13:07:07 GMT -6
Word of mouth is a blessing and a curse.
I now have four friends with pairs of Gustins here in the UK... solely because I turned them onto the company. No point rehashing the issues I've had with my pairs, but here's what happened with my friends:
1. Ordered the wrong size, one waist size too big but also pointed out that the Straight cut was comically wide through the leg. Returned the jeans, received store credit around 3 weeks ago. Hasn't bothered to back another pair.
2. Liked the jeans, ordered his correct size but they sewed up too small for him to be able to fasten the top button. Gave them away to a work charity clothing collection.
3. Thinks the jeans are OK and does wears them now and again.
4. Doesn't like the jeans, felt they turned out nothing like the swatch photos indicated (Pimas). They sewed up small in any case so he never wears them.
None of them intend backing any further pairs.
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repiv
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Post by repiv on Oct 8, 2014 13:11:57 GMT -6
I'm shocked Gustin is allowing the community chat to become the clusterf!@k it is without a single statement.
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Post by julian on Oct 8, 2014 13:13:41 GMT -6
I'm shocked Gustin is allowing the community chat to become the clusterf!@k it is without a single statement. It's getting to the point where it'll look worse if they do something. Seems we're all Yeckel now... |
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Post by jeffrx on Oct 8, 2014 13:17:46 GMT -6
I'm shocked Gustin is allowing the community chat to become the clusterf!@k it is without a single statement. Me too. All it would really take is what they have done in the past - an acknowledgement that they hear the complaints, but this time with a specific action plan to fix the problems. So far, there has been no plan. They are facing a big problem - their biggest "fans" are turning on them. |
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Post by Old26 on Oct 8, 2014 13:25:50 GMT -6
Well, what are they going to say at this point: "we're aware and are going to fix it"? Been there, done that. I think they have opened the ballast valves and are letting the hot air escape, while sinking themselves.
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Post by wisdom on Oct 8, 2014 13:29:53 GMT -6
I'm shocked Gustin is allowing the community chat to become the clusterf!@k it is without a single statement. It's getting to the point where it'll look worse if they do something. Seems we're all Yeckel now... Someone should invite him to join this forum.. |
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Post by jbreitenbucher on Oct 8, 2014 13:33:40 GMT -6
Yeckel was the canary in the coal mine.
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Post by davelewis on Oct 8, 2014 13:40:20 GMT -6
Yeckel was the canary in the coal mine. In retrospect, that seems to be the case. Myself, as a retail investor, when I invest in a company, and there is a pertinent issue that surfaces, you look for the company to do some type of damage control. I'll tell you this, when it doesn't happen, investors will sell first, and ask questions later. In some cases, that is the death of the company. Good thing they are not a public company, or they'd be toast. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 13:52:43 GMT -6
It's getting to the point where it'll look worse if they do something. Seems we're all Yeckel now... Someone should invite him to join this forum.. NOOOO!!! H-G is the closest to Yeckel in that they harp on and on and on and on and on about the same thing, even if they haven't experienced it firsthand. Yeckel did have a legitimate issue with a bag, but like Roman's unhappy Yelper, wouldn't let it go and nothing to a point would have made him happy. But...his whining about everything else, random non sequiturs, irrelevant rants, links, and name dropping of 'famous' denim folk...all combined to make Yeckel 'Yeckel'. No one here has yet been able to duplicate that (thankfully). |
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