Time & Silence

All I can really say at this point is that if this is unsanforized, then everything I've gotten from Gustin is unsanforized. whiskeyriver would you say that the texture on the Oni's you just got and the Time & Silence is the same, or markedly different?

This thread is starting to make me look like a know-it-all asshole, so I really just have to leave it at the texture on these matches all the sanforized raw indigo denim I've ever laid my hands on or worn. The shrink that's been seen matches my experience with a hot wash of sanforized raw denim. I'm not going to hot wash my Time & Silence because they're the size I need them to be, but they will eventually get a cold wash and hang dry, as I don't believe them to be unsanforized. As I've said before, if they come out of that and I can no longer wear them cause they've shrunk too much, I'll concede defeat, however the sizing advice gaseous received seems to indicate I'll be fine. I haven't picked up the loomstate from Gustin, and don't have any PBJ/Oni/other unsanforized, so I can't unequivocally say that these are sanforized, but all the denim I've seen seems to indicate that it is.

Since the denim I received does not share the same selvedge ID as those whiskey got, I can't say anything about those except that the shrink he experienced is the same as what I get from hot washing raw sanforized denim. 

That's not a fair comparison. The Onis are a different fabric, the process of making the Oni fabric is different...it's apples and oranges, really. I can say that the texture on my Time and Silence were sort of similar, though of far higher quality, than Levis Shrink to Fits.

I'm the opposite of gaseousclay...I love unsanforized because you can tailor fit them a lot more than a sanforized pair by tweaking with all the variables involved with a soak (water temperature, length of soak, wearing/not wearing during soak, sticking random objects in waistband to prevent waist shrinkage, etc...). With a pair of unsanforized...if they don't really fit you that well out of the bag, well there's not much you can do.

do not fear the unsanforized my denim bros.

Congratulations, I now have Blue Öyster Cult stuck in my brain.

well I'm not trying to add any confusuion to this, but just because a pair is Loomstate or Unsanforized it does not mean that it will have the slubby and rough texture like a pair of Onis. You can have a pair of Loomstates that look similar to a pair that's sanforized.

Now don't go losing your mind. Sanforization simply processes denim to where a cold wash will not alter the fit "significantly." It should have the same basic effect as a cold wash, or Tenpi processing.

I think you may have taken another wrong turn at the Unsanforized Highway. Unsanforized =/= Loomstate. So it's possible to have a singed, but unsanforized denim. It's also possible to have a non singed unsanforized denim. And many folks sell once washed unsanforized denim, which should be nearly equal to sanforized in terms of standing up to a cold wash.

Hot wash anything cotton and it's going to shrink, some things, like "non-iron" stuff treated with formaldahyde (yes, really) will shrink less, but give cotton heat and time and it will all shrink.

There's a damn big grey area about where Loomstate and Unsanforized begin and end, but it's entirely possible that what T&S is selling is an unsanforized, but singed and single washed denim. Now if is washed or sanforized, a cold wash shouldn't impact sizing.

raw is the only definite answer I have. They're most certainly not garment washed. 

Well it's my belief, and I think the widely accepted belief among the denim brands/communites, that raw simply means they haven't been pre-washed...which is different from sanforization. Again, I'm not trying to claim I'm an expert here but I think that raw just means that the dye is unaltered..as in nothing has been done to artificially advance the fading of the indigo dye. Hence the ability for them to wear uniquely to an individuals body and to achieve those "sick fades brah".

/\

This is my understanding as well.

Well, sort of. It just means that, as far as denim, ample research is required. As far as the dating analogy, it's more like you have selected that you want to date women, however there is no set definition of "woman" for the site. In this case, the definition of raw is "woman", however let's say raw is a woman, however sanforized is a gay woman, unsanforized is a straight woman, and having raw vs. one-wash numbers are the only way to determine which is which. To complicate things, none of the women know which one indicates which is straight and which is gay, but they're simply checking a box that says "sexuality", without a definition of what that will do.

So if there is no wash vs unwashed number comparison, you're just gonna have to get them home to find out (oh, and the only way to find out is by getting into a warm bath with them). Or trust only manufacturers that tell you everything about all of it (limited to Japanese sewers who want you to know the entire story about their custom-milled denim). my list is basically the mud weft strike golds, green low tension oni, and some pbj (if they ever send anyone stock again) so maybe I need to limit my dating profile (only crazy and unpredictable Japanese chicks, to wrap up the analogy)

The Oni, Strike Gold and PBJ all have fairly reliable pre and post soak measurents and are all unsanforized. You can buy once washed in all three brands if you're more comfortable getting known measurements.

As for smaller, boutique brands, the risk is certianly higher.