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Post by northcoast on Mar 31, 2016 11:17:10 GMT -6
Unboxed these little guys. I feel horrible for you. How will you ever make it? |
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Post by devastitis on Mar 31, 2016 11:18:30 GMT -6
Unboxed these little guys. I feel horrible for you. How will you ever make it? Not sure. It's gonna be tough, but I think I'll manage..somehow  |
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Post by bentin on Mar 31, 2016 11:24:11 GMT -6
The backs just look unfinished to me. And good lord, enough with the fuzz.
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Post by stinky on Mar 31, 2016 12:24:39 GMT -6
This is not a criticism of anybody, just an observation, but I really don't get the "unboxing" picture/video phenomenon.
Don't get me wrong, I like to see product pictures, because I tend to think that in some ways, you can get a better idea of what a product really looks like in amateur shots, but I don't need pictures of a beat-up, packing tape bound corrugated outer box with a UPS label complete with a blurred out address that I oftentimes see.
Having said that, I love those boots.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2016 7:01:05 GMT -6
^Yep, same except I don't like the boots but to each his own
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Post by northcoast on Apr 1, 2016 7:46:13 GMT -6
I love the color of the natural waxed flesh and the shape of Vibergs.
But as Devastis will tell you, Vibergs take a ton of commitment in terms of resources. Lots of time and patience to figure out which size fits your foot in which last. And the price is at the top end of the spectrum for workboots.
I dropped out of the Viberg game for the above reasons. At present I would consider buying a pair if (when) I ever go to Vancouver as it would be awesome to go to their showroom and walk out with a pair after trying on every last in the store and taking notes. I do go to TOR a few times a year but I doubt I'll ever see any there.
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Post by northcoast on Apr 1, 2016 14:55:04 GMT -6
And apparently Viberg was bitching about Truman on Instagram today in a little cat fight.
Gee, I wonder what that was about?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2016 15:27:42 GMT -6
brett viberg was bashing on vince of truman boots, saying that truman's are a blatant rip off and vince had no balls to do something of his own. it's caused quite an uproar on reddit and ig...to the point that brett apparently pulled down all of his ig posts. there are definitely similarities between the two, but i don't think viberg innovated much with their service boot. it's an adaptation of the many service boots that came before, on a last previously used, with leathers available to all, using soles available to all.
even if his point was valid, being petulant about it on social media isn't likely to score you any points.
of course i type this while wearing my truman boots.
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Post by exophobe on Apr 1, 2016 15:59:18 GMT -6
brett viberg was bashing on vince of truman boots, saying that truman's are a blatant rip off and vince had no balls to do something of his own. it's caused quite an uproar on reddit and ig...to the point that brett apparently pulled down all of his ig posts. there are definitely similarities between the two, but i don't think viberg innovated much with their service boot. it's an adaptation of the many service boots that came before, on a last previously used, with leathers available to all, using soles available to all. even if his point was valid, being petulant about it on social media isn't likely to score you any points. of course i type this while wearing my truman boots. Cool. Makes the cost of viberg even less justifiable. |
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Post by bentin on Apr 1, 2016 16:07:20 GMT -6
Yep, makes it easy to ignore the Petulant Maple Syrup guy.
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Post by northcoast on Apr 1, 2016 17:54:56 GMT -6
brett viberg was bashing on vince of truman boots, saying that truman's are a blatant rip off and vince had no balls to do something of his own. it's caused quite an uproar on reddit and ig...to the point that brett apparently pulled down all of his ig posts. there are definitely similarities between the two, but i don't think viberg innovated much with their service boot. it's an adaptation of the many service boots that came before, on a last previously used, with leathers available to all, using soles available to all. even if his point was valid, being petulant about it on social media isn't likely to score you any points. of course i type this while wearing my truman boots. Thanks. Thats pretty much as I expected. I guess simplistically Viberg is now fashion footwear and with a percentage of their newer models being GYW and the fall of the Canadian dollar he does not have much of a leg to stand on other than brand cachet to justify the price and he's doing a great job of harming that advantage. It was smart to price things in USD, but when you do that AND go to GYW vs. stitchdown THEN bitch about a guy who's a small shop doing stitchdown for sometimes 60% of what you charge WITH standard brannock sizing.........well, you just made your competition a bunch of money. As mentioned up thread, I may own a pair someday but they are not a must have for me. The more I learned about them, the farther away I got from having a desire to go through the sizing issues and price point to get them. OTOH Truman has been a joy to work with and though I never did buy from him I did exchange 3 or 4 emails with him a little over a year ago and I appreciate what he is doing. |
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Post by exophobe on Apr 1, 2016 18:24:42 GMT -6
I guess you can tell who's really hurting who by the venting. I just don't like it, I don't like it when Giles does it, I don't like it when viberg does it, I didn't like it when Roman did it. I will pay for quality, but don't tend to spring for impudence.
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Post by northcoast on Apr 1, 2016 20:47:16 GMT -6
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Post by exophobe on Apr 1, 2016 21:07:27 GMT -6
It's sad to see things go like that over such a terrible looking pair of boots.
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Post by exophobe on Apr 1, 2016 21:13:22 GMT -6
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Post by scooter on Apr 1, 2016 21:40:41 GMT -6
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Post by northcoast on Apr 1, 2016 21:49:32 GMT -6
Looks like he did a collab with 3sixteen and Truman had a MTO of 1 that copied the above design.
Possible that 3sixteen owns the Viberg rights to the MTO so Viberg can't make more.
https://www.reddit.com/r/goodyearwelt/comments/4cwdin/brett_viberg_calls_out_truman_april_fools_maybe/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
[–]mmencius 3 points 7 hours ago
Btw everyone go and read Brett Viberg's AMA. He comes off as a massive asshole. Eg responding to a question about what he feels about boots similar to his own:
There is nothing you can do nor say to someone who is doing that. It pisses you off but all you can do is what is in front of you which is to make the best product you can. Ive had a few things happen to me that I got burnt of with friends who sort of fcked me. But I cant say anything, you just sort of get on with it and hopefully people can acknowledge that one is the original and one is the copy. But usually, well always, someone will take an idea and make it worse. They either dont have the skill to improve it or make it the same quality. Its more so a lesser version. If I were to do that and steal an obv thing, i would make it better otherwise what is the point. My name is on the product so why make it shitty.
https://www.reddit.com/r/goodyearwelt/comments/396ldc/we_are_brett_and_guy_from_viberg_boot_ama/
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Post by devastitis on Apr 1, 2016 23:31:47 GMT -6
The Viberg 3Sixtern collab is an amazing boot. And anyone that sees that boot instantly recognizes that that is a Vibergx3Sixteen makeup. So I'd be pissed too if someone made a knockoff of my design. There was an uproar here when G copied Filson in the bags, when G copied EG with the CPO, and when G copied the CPs. These are all instantly recognizable products to the ones who designed and made them famous. So yeah, I completely understand how Brett Viberg feels, and have no problem with how he reacted. He's being an "asshole" but he's also showing his passion. Could he have said it better, sure, but we're not all PC all the time as well, so cut him some slack. Hate how "PC principal" society has gotten, where we have to worry about everyone and everything. Viberg still produces top notch products, so until he goes off the rails and Viberg starts making bad quality goods, give the guy a break.
With that said, when a product can be copied and produced with quality at 70 cents on the dollar like Truman did with the 3Sixteen clone, consumers win. If Truman makes this boot as part of the regular order, I may very well pull the trigger. I've been considering buying the 3Sixteen version, but am unsure on the sizing on the 2040, and if it runs big like the 2045, I'm SoL because it's out of my size. If it runs small like a 2030, then they have my size. If Truman can make an MTO of it, I'm probably in.
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Post by exophobe on Apr 2, 2016 3:39:42 GMT -6
I made the mistake of thinking it was something available in the viberg shop instead of limited edition stuff. I can see why he's upset, and now I don't want boots from either. I understand why it's terribly frustrating for designers, since there is literally no legal recourse, but angry social media posts don't do anyone any favors. if you want to play the limited edition fashion game, you have to keep updating and iterating, otherwise someone will eventually be making your design.
regardless, that is pretty shady of Truman.
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Post by northcoast on Apr 2, 2016 8:52:16 GMT -6
The overarching point for me is bags and boots have been around for hundreds or thousands of years so GL with copyright or IP protection or whatever legal remedy applies here.
It's all part of the game as far as I can tell.
The bottom line is Truman is cutting into his market share making boots cheaper. The price of Vibergs is artificially inflated due to them being fashion boots and their cost being tied to the USD.
Truman has exploited this cost differential to his advantage and more power to him.
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Post by exophobe on Apr 2, 2016 9:34:20 GMT -6
The overarching point for me is bags and boots have been around for hundreds or thousands of years so GL with copyright or IP protection or whatever legal remedy applies here. It's all part of the game as far as I can tell. The bottom line is Truman is cutting into his market share making boots cheaper. The price of Vibergs is artificially inflated due to them being fashion boots and their cost being tied to the USD. Truman has exploited this cost differential to his advantage and more power to him. There is no copyright or patent protection for any of this, which is why it's frustrating for designers, but they knew it going in, and startups would be impossible in the industry by this point were there such protections in place. I think it tends to be more frustrating the longer people are in the business, but at the same time, those who keep designing are always leading and the others are following, which is how you get a name people pay for. If you stop innovating, there will always be someone ready to come up and take your place. But then you have a company like red wing that really doesn't have to innovate, but it obviously limits the amount they can charge -- nobody is going to drop $700 on a pair of Hawthorne muleskinners. It can be scary to watch someone dig into your customer base, but this is part of being in such a competitive industry. |
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Post by MiddleAge on Apr 2, 2016 9:43:04 GMT -6
^^ this x 100, especially after I saw the Viberg in the flesh. Nice boots but definitely not at that price.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2016 10:21:13 GMT -6
i feel that i'm missing something here. they both have a ripple sole, which truman customers had been asking vince about for as long as i've been looking at truman boots. so they both have ripple soles stitched to their respective boot offerings. unless you're going to stitch some pockets to the side, there's not a lot you can do with a boot to set it apart...especially if you're offering your customers some level of customization (and they then choose no cap toe, a pull tab, and a specific sole). basically it's similar to someone saying 'hey, we use these soles/leather and don't have exclusivity...but don't expect any one else to use them' and then get angry when they do.
it would be similar to iron heart getting angry about any other manufacturer using heavy denim to make a 5-pocket jean for less. there's really not much you're going to do to change up that design.
to me it's a bit different from gustin's cpo because the design they chose to emulate (or purchase) was such a departure from a classic cpo. it was very recognizable, using specific (extra) pocket placement and shape. it was a complete carbon copy, not simply 'inspired by'. i've never had the same feeling about the bag, as it was clearly inspired by a filson...but not a direct copy and not alone in copying that design. i think their failure there was pricing. for the asking price it probably seemed better for many to 'just get the original'.
even if there is a legitimate concern here, the whiny public response is just lame. it's not simply 'pc' to keep that sort of response out of the public venue, it's good form for you and your brand. you can still show evidence of passion for your craft and even bash on truman a bit by touting your own product and point out why anyone should choose them rather than out and out bashing someone personally.
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Post by exophobe on Apr 2, 2016 11:07:48 GMT -6
@david - I agree and I think there's a real misunderstanding of class as being "political correctness" in the current discourse. There is a way to handle this situation with class, and Brett Viberg failed to do that in this situation. People aren't complaining here about their sensitivities being offended, they're saying that they don't approve of the way he's carrying himself here. You can be upset and maintain dignity, that doesn't mean you're succumbing to political correctness.
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Post by exophobe on Apr 2, 2016 11:13:43 GMT -6
In the end, viberg worked with 3sixteen and built a limited edition shoe on a standard vibram sole offering, and a bunch of people got together and paid Truman to make a very similar shoe that was not available elsewhere. It hasn't been added to the Truman standard offering, so the sympathy I have for the design being copied is pretty low.
It all comes down to whether or not you believe imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
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