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Post by Subsound on Nov 11, 2014 19:29:16 GMT -6
Hi, has anyone else noticed that the yoke on their Jpn Hickory Stripe WS is sewn crooked? See mine below. I'm not sure how much this bothers me yet. Would it be classified as a defect? Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 19:38:40 GMT -6
Hi, has anyone else noticed that the yoke on their Jpn Hickory Stripe WS is sewn crooked? See mine below. I'm not sure how much this bothers me yet. Would it be classified as a defect? I consider it a defect (though it seems to be a 'standard feature' of Gustin's patterned shirts). That said...I'm not sure with that particular pattern if it would bother me enough to return. I'd have to see it in person and while wearing it to determine that.
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Post by Derek G on Nov 11, 2014 19:47:26 GMT -6
Subsound , don't take this the wrong way ok? I can definitely see what your saying going by the pic. but are you sure you have the shirt "square" on the hanger? You can see that the left side is "tight" or "squeezed" (Idk how else to describe it) Does it look that way when you wear it? If it does, I'd be disappointed. Not doubting you brother, as they have been having big issues with their shirts since...well,since they started making shirts. I just hate to see you guys getting juked on your shirts...just my opinon, but I think G should get out of the shirt game with all the trouble they've had. It seems like more trouble for them than it's worth. I know others will disagree, and that's OK , just my own personal thoughts.
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Post by exophobe on Nov 11, 2014 19:51:34 GMT -6
Hi, has anyone else noticed that the yoke on their Jpn Hickory Stripe WS is sewn crooked? See mine below. I'm not sure how much this bothers me yet. Would it be classified as a defect? I'll look at mine tonight, but I hadn't noticed. You guys will ruin this thing for me yet.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 20:00:36 GMT -6
Subsound , don't take this the wrong way ok? I can definitely see what your saying going by the pic. but are you sure you have the shirt "square" on the hanger? You can see that the left side is "tight" or "squeezed" (Idk how else to describe it) Does it look that way when you wear it? If it does, I'd be disappointed. Not doubting you brother, as they have been having big issues with their shirts since...well,since they started making shirts. I just hate to see you guys getting juked on your shirts...just my opinon, but I think G should get out of the shirt game with all the trouble they've had. It seems like more trouble for them than it's worth. I know others will disagree, and that's OK , just my own personal thoughts. Derek G i think what Subsound is referring to (at least what i noticed in the photo) is that the fabric pattern isn't sewn level across the yoke. if you follow the lowest line of the pattern from the left, it ends up as the 4th from the bottom by the time it gets to the right side since the fabric was sewn in on an angle.
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Post by Subsound on Nov 11, 2014 20:06:09 GMT -6
Subsound , don't take this the wrong way ok? I can definitely see what your saying going by the pic. but are you sure you have the shirt "square" on the hanger? You can see that the left side is "tight" or "squeezed" (Idk how else to describe it) Does it look that way when you wear it? If it does, I'd be disappointed. Not doubting you brother, as they have been having big issues with their shirts since...well,since they started making shirts. I just hate to see you guys getting juked on your shirts...just my opinon, but I think G should get out of the shirt game with all the trouble they've had. It seems like more trouble for them than it's worth. I know others will disagree, and that's OK , just my own personal thoughts. Derek G i think what Subsound is referring to (at least what i noticed in the photo) is that the fabric pattern isn't sewn level across the yoke. if you follow the lowest line of the pattern from the left, it ends up as the 4th from the bottom by the time it gets to the right side since the fabric was sewn in on an angle. Yep, @david is spot on.
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Post by highlights on Nov 11, 2014 20:22:17 GMT -6
Hi, has anyone else noticed that the yoke on their Jpn Hickory Stripe WS is sewn crooked? See mine below. I'm not sure how much this bothers me yet. Would it be classified as a defect? Hi Subsound, given your history of totally astute calls (imo)...& yep, it's a definite fault to me. I'd be bummed; like you, I wanna wear gear that speaks from the basic soundness/'quality side' of the human potential/product. Wouldn't wear it/it'd bug me; off to charity 'cos can't be fussed from this distance/location to Return to Sender. Wish G all the best & I've done really well w/ 9x G32Straight. Cool, for me, all the way. Gonna need to read a few more reports from happy ws customers before I'd consider buying more G workshirts (waitin' on SakeBomber). It's not-on, bro'...the ws is funky, shonky. I'll defend & qualify my opinion on this if it offends anyone (not my intention)...just tryin' to make an objective call. Yeah, sorry for you Subsound.
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Post by DigDug on Nov 11, 2014 20:41:39 GMT -6
A problem I can see in haveing a crooked Yoke is if the fabric shrinks (which it seems that the HS has a little from what others have posted) it May pull/twist/pucker (what ever you want to call it). Now this may not be much or even noticed. My HBone jeans when soaked puckered , I think becouse of the way it's weaved (I kind of like it, gives it a little texture. On my jeans). I noticed it most near the seams, where the stitching didn't give much. But on a long seam across the back? I think others who soaked there's would have noticed this though.
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Post by exophobe on Nov 11, 2014 21:11:32 GMT -6
Hi Subsound, given your history of totally astute calls (imo)...yep, it's a definite fault to me. I'd be bummed; like you, I wanna wear gear that speaks from the basic soundness/'quality side' of the human potential/product. Wouldn't wear it/it'd bug me; off to charity 'cos can't be fussed from this distance/location to Return to Sender. Wish G all the best & I've done really well w/ 9x G32Straight. Cool, for me, all the way. Gonna need to read a few more reports from happy ws customers before I'd consider buying more G workshirts (waitin' on SakeBomber). It's not-on, bro'...the ws is funky, shonky. I'll defend & qualify my opinion on this if it offends anyone (not my intention)...just tryin' to make an objective call. Yeah, sorry for you Subsound Not discounting opinions, but even if I find that my HS1 has a similar issue, I don't think it would keep me from being able to wear the shirt. Most people wear a shirt without ever even looking at how the pattern matches on the sleeves, the yoke, the pockets, etc. This doesn't make it right, and they tend to if it's a $300 shirt. You'd have to point it out to someone in order for them to notice it, because frankly, to most observers, they don't give a damn how well your yoke lines up, and if they judge you based on your yoke alignment, then they're assholes either way. Disappointing? Yes, possibly. For a handmade garment, that's pretty darned minor, but that doesn't make it less disappointing if this is what is important to you. To continue with the horse that's been re-beaten, etc, you know that these are bigger issues to you and us than they are to Gustin, otherwise they wouldn't have essentially discontinued their community page due to said complaints. If that issue makes the shirt unwearable to you, you can either address it with Gustin, see what they do, or just stop buying from Gustin. People are more bound to notice the eyes on the back of your head looking at the yoke of your shirt than they are the actual yoke.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 21:22:31 GMT -6
Yeah, just checked and mine has the same issue. For $140, the workmanship of my work shirt is totally unacceptable in this price range. It is not horrible but there is also nothing special about the Hickory Stripe fabric. I am holding my breath on the Wabisabi.
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Post by exophobe on Nov 11, 2014 21:31:03 GMT -6
Yeah, just checked and mine has the same issue. For $140, the workmanship of my work shirt is totally unacceptable in this price range. It is not horrible but there is also nothing special about the Hickory Stripe fabric. I am holding my breath on the Wabisabi. It does have to be said, though, that none have returned their "totally unacceptable" workshirts, and none have mentioned bringing this to Gustin's attention. This is the first run, and if no one gives them an indication they're not happy, they have no reason to demand better of the new shop they're working with. Perhaps you all have your own reasons for doing so, but from their perspective, if no one complains then there's no problem. If you have no interest in attempting to let them make it right, per your own advice, stop complaining about it.
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Post by wisdom on Nov 11, 2014 21:40:32 GMT -6
Not discounting opinions, but even if I find that my HS1 has a similar issue, I don't think it would keep me from being able to wear the shirt. Most people wear a shirt without ever even looking at how the pattern matches on the sleeves, the yoke, the pockets, etc. This doesn't make it right, and they tend to if it's a $300 shirt. You'd have to point it out to someone in order for them to notice it, because frankly, to most observers, they don't give a damn how well your yoke lines up, and if they judge you based on your yoke alignment, then they're assholes either way. Disappointing? Yes, possibly. For a handmade garment, that's pretty darned minor, but that doesn't make it less disappointing if this is what is important to you. To continue with the horse that's been re-beaten, etc, you know that these are bigger issues to you and us than they are to Gustin, otherwise they wouldn't have essentially discontinued their community page due to said complaints. If that issue makes the shirt unwearable to you, you can either address it with Gustin, see what they do, or just stop buying from Gustin. People are more bound to notice the eyes on the back of your head looking at the yoke of your shirt than they are the actual yoke. Any idea if this would be acceptable in an Ironheart WS? I imagine this is a "characteristic" that is more common in Gustin WS's versus those made individually. In order for fabric and pattern to line up perfectly, all the fabric being cut at once must be perfectly aligned and the stack must resist any sort of torsion during the cut. The batch production that Gustin uses to improve their efficiency makes this, in my opinion, a difficult problem to avoid. Any patterned or directionally textured fabric can have this problem. I wonder if we can get a tailor's perspective on this..
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 21:51:55 GMT -6
Yeah, just checked and mine has the same issue. For $140, the workmanship of my work shirt is totally unacceptable in this price range. It is not horrible but there is also nothing special about the Hickory Stripe fabric. I am holding my breath on the Wabisabi. It does have to be said, though, that none have returned their "totally unacceptable" workshirts, and none have mentioned bringing this to Gustin's attention. This is the first run, and if no one gives them an indication they're not happy, they have no reason to demand better of the new shop they're working with. Perhaps you all have your own reasons for doing so, but from their perspective, if no one complains then there's no problem. If you have no interest in attempting to let them make it right, per your own advice, stop complaining about it. My advice was DON'T whine about sizing issue if that person keep buying even getting wrong sewing sizes. Since I am not buying another one, maybe if I shout loud enough, G's can hear it here from the Gustin forum... (seriously, I am pretty sure G knows about the length issues since we talked about it for two months after the release.. same as the size issue.... I do hope they going to fix it, since I have a Wabisabi coming)
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Post by DigDug on Nov 11, 2014 21:52:14 GMT -6
How about a comparison with Taylor Stitch (a company we for the most part can agree does a good job). Anyone have the TS Hickory Stripe shirt available. I paid $140 so I'd say its a fair comparison.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 21:54:45 GMT -6
Not discounting opinions, but even if I find that my HS1 has a similar issue, I don't think it would keep me from being able to wear the shirt. Most people wear a shirt without ever even looking at how the pattern matches on the sleeves, the yoke, the pockets, etc. This doesn't make it right, and they tend to if it's a $300 shirt. You'd have to point it out to someone in order for them to notice it, because frankly, to most observers, they don't give a damn how well your yoke lines up, and if they judge you based on your yoke alignment, then they're assholes either way. Disappointing? Yes, possibly. For a handmade garment, that's pretty darned minor, but that doesn't make it less disappointing if this is what is important to you. To continue with the horse that's been re-beaten, etc, you know that these are bigger issues to you and us than they are to Gustin, otherwise they wouldn't have essentially discontinued their community page due to said complaints. If that issue makes the shirt unwearable to you, you can either address it with Gustin, see what they do, or just stop buying from Gustin. People are more bound to notice the eyes on the back of your head looking at the yoke of your shirt than they are the actual yoke. Any idea if this would be acceptable in an Ironheart WS? I imagine this is a "characteristic" that is more common in Gustin WS's versus those made individually. In order for fabric and pattern to line up perfectly, all the fabric being cut at once must be perfectly aligned and the stack must resist any sort of torsion during the cut. The batch production that Gustin uses to improve their efficiency makes this, in my opinion, a difficult problem to avoid. Any patterned or directionally textured fabric can have this problem. I wonder if we can get a tailor's perspective on this.. I think it is a great idea. I know Japanese and Italian are very anal about matching pattern perfectly from the high fashion brands. Maybe work wear has different standard.
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Post by stinky on Nov 11, 2014 22:12:38 GMT -6
if it makes you feel any better, the example pics on the current campaign have a crooked yoke as well.
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Post by exophobe on Nov 12, 2014 0:00:39 GMT -6
So, I have the TS blue railroad stripe and the G-hs1. I'm still not photo resolved, but looking over them closely...
TSBRS is curved appropriately through the pattern to keep a "straight" yoke, but I do lose one of the stripes going across the back of it, so not perfect, but better than a passerby would notice. The GHS1 loses more stripes, and doesn't get them back. However, the GHS1 lines up perfectly with the sleeves, where the TS is hitting maybe the large side of 1/16th of an inch off on one side (where sleeve meets yoke).
The placket and cuffs on my GHS are arrow straight, the placket on my TS has a little more drift, but nothing noticeable at a glance (or many glances). The cuffs on the TS, however, well, I'll just say that they aren't straight, but I've never noticed it without taking a really close look at it. I've mentioned before that the top and bottom side of the GHS collar make points at the seam. This is something the TS doesn't even attempt to do, so I rate the craft in the collar a step down from my GHS.
Oh, and as far as the side seams, I don't think straight is possible in a wearable garment, but neither one of them has a clean match going up the sides, and I'd be shocked if it did.
I really can't dig into these things any further, neither of them have flaws without digging for them, and being handmade without being bespoke, I don't fault either of them, and consider neither an item of poor workmanship. I think with a bunch more washes, the two would become very similar in hand-feel, too. I rate both as superior in craft to my orange eucalyptus plaid from Gustin.
I have a JCrew micro-plaid from 4-5 years ago, and it doesn't stack up anywhere near these two, but it was probably 65 or 70 new.
Having looked at these guys closer, I think the Gustin weakness is in the pattern design, since a yoke has to bow in a very specific way to create the shoulder and still line up with the sleeves. Since neither have a pleat in the back, I imagine that adds another level of complexity. I'm happy to wear either of these shirts cause they look great on me, and really that's the bottom line here.
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Post by highlights on Nov 12, 2014 0:06:08 GMT -6
Frankly, for me, this issue comes down to competitiveness...biz. Any biz. For a $160-$180, I've seen IH hickory shirts on rakuten. You NEVER gonna see this sort of mess on an IH shirt...for a few bucks more... AND you'll have it a week after paying for it. So, OK, aesthetics aside, it's ultimately not sustainable. Not whining - I've mostly stayed out of the whole fit/pattern/sewing issues saga - but these things reflect poorly on the starship (leavin' that subtle). Yeah, payin' more than 100 bucks...wanna get the basic deal...not always convenient (depending on location) to return...& yeah, I'd be informing G too. Depressing sh*t really - don't think I'm gonna revisit these issues.
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Post by Subsound on Nov 12, 2014 0:15:31 GMT -6
if it makes you feel any better, the example pics on the current campaign have a crooked yoke as well. You are correct stinky!
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Post by exophobe on Nov 12, 2014 0:23:56 GMT -6
Frankly, for me, this issue comes down to competitiveness/biz. Any biz. For a $160-$180, I've seen IH hickory shirts on rakuten. You NEVER gonna see this sort of mess on an IH shirt...for a few bucks more AND you'll have it a week after paying for it. So, OK, aesthetics aside, it's ultimately not sustainable. Not whining - I've mostly stayed out of the whole fit issue/s saga - but these things reflect poorly on the starship (leavin' that subtle). Yeah, payin' more than 100 bucks...wanna get the basic deal...not always convenient (depending on location) to return...& yeah, I'd be informing G too. Depressing sh*t really - don't think I'm gonna revisit these issues. That's more of my point. Let them know if you think they're putting shit in the mail. Don't shout it on every forum until you've given them a chance to fix it, cause I'd much rather know about them giving you the finger when you reach out than whether you're unhappy with the yoke. If they think you're trifling, give them a chance to make that decision. They finally told yeckel that they had to part ways on the duffel issue, because they didn't feel they could make him happy, and I don't think they could have then (I think he's learned a little bit more about what "gonna fall apart" looks like). I'd be pretty annoyed if people were more willing to post to the world how much I suck without giving me a chance to help sculpt that opinion of me, and that's where Gustin is right now with a lot of negative views of them. We've seen some truly exceptional responses from Roman on lawless issues, and he goes above and beyond, in my opinion. right now, unfortunately, Gustin feels they can stand to lose some customers, but that was the case even before the workshirt was funded for the first time. so for that reason, you can choose to not do business with them. If theres no chance they can make any of it right regardless, you could probably reach out and demand a refund now on anything you're waiting on, and that would have more direct impact on them and illicit a faster response than posting angry rants to every forum on the Internet.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 0:31:55 GMT -6
Having looked at these guys closer, I think the Gustin weakness is in the pattern design, since a yoke has to bow in a very specific way to create the shoulder and still line up with the sleeves. Since neither have a pleat in the back, I imagine that adds another level of complexity. I'm happy to wear either of these shirts cause they look great on me, and really that's the bottom line here. To each, their own. But that's definitely the bottom line for me for me as well. As long as they look great, and aren't falling apart, then I have no problem wearing them. I think a vast majority of people in the world will not be able to notice these imperfections without inspecting the shirts, and a vast majority of people in the world won't. Perfection isn't necessary, but if you demand perfection, then pay the premium.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 7:16:15 GMT -6
Having looked at these guys closer, I think the Gustin weakness is in the pattern design, since a yoke has to bow in a very specific way to create the shoulder and still line up with the sleeves. Since neither have a pleat in the back, I imagine that adds another level of complexity. I'm happy to wear either of these shirts cause they look great on me, and really that's the bottom line here. To each, their own. But that's definitely the bottom line for me for me as well. As long as they look great, and aren't falling apart, then I have no problem wearing them. I think a vast majority of people in the world will not be able to notice these imperfections without inspecting the shirts, and a vast majority of people in the world won't. Perfection isn't necessary, but if you demand perfection, then pay the premium. We are getting train well by Gustin. $140 is expensive for a shirt. We are already paying a premium.
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Post by highlights on Nov 12, 2014 7:45:18 GMT -6
Feel a bit funky having dropped a bit of a bomb, in my last post, on the old G. I don't expect or need perfection - the little issues such as missing bar tacks, loose threads, etc, etc, mean nothing to me. But really...you got a linear fabric like hickory...ya gotta know that straight lines/seams that aren't in sync are gonna stand out like tits on a bull...that yolk looked to be out half an inch (or more?)side-to-side. With another fabric this would, of course, be less critical. Love G jeans...but, no bitchin', that shirt wasn't cuttin' it for the price (which is too close to other options).
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Post by exophobe on Nov 12, 2014 8:35:34 GMT -6
It looks like a lot of hickory stripes out there kind of avoid the problem by either not designing in a yoke, or minimizing it. The $280 Iron Heart HS Workshirt lines up perfectly in the sample image on their site, and the western version of the same shirt lines up vertically, which, in my opinion, puts a barrier between the sleeves and the body, giving it a vest "feel". From the few RRL pictures I can find, they seem to forego the yoke, which in my (admittedly small) experience makes a shirt hang funny (get a lot of the "sun-dress" effect at the waist). I wasn't able to find a Rogue Territory hickory stripe in my brief search, and I don't remember enough of the other brands to go look right now.
Given that it doesn't bother me, and I'm not planning on having people over to inspect my shirts, I'm not that upset about it. I'm guessing you guys are gonna freak out when the wabisabi ships, though. Simply by definition, it will be somewhat ironic when people are upset about the alignment on their wabisabi shirts, but I'm doomed to receive one missing a sleeve made by a tailor with claws for a hands as much as I've stood up for the HS1.
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Post by gusjin on Nov 13, 2014 5:26:57 GMT -6
I'm wondering if they're extra inspecting the PHB because of the sizing problems with the first few deliveries
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