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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2014 16:34:07 GMT -6
David, I posted on my another thread that I don't have time and energy to even bother with G anymore. I am going to eat the $140 and it is not a big deal. There are more important things in my life today that I need to spend my energy on.
On the other hand, if someone decides to buy the G work shirt now after seeing all the Work shirt feedback, please don't whine about having the same problems down the road. I am truly sick and tired of people whining about G's issues after reading the forum comments for the last 9 months.
""Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Nov 9, 2014 16:45:57 GMT -6
I swear as long as my Postal HB WS fits I can care less if the stitches are crooked, I even wont care if i get the thing and my buttons are loose or even off. I just want it to fit as I really want this shirt
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2014 16:51:54 GMT -6
I swear as long as my Postal HB WS fits I can care less if the stitches are crooked, I even wont care if i get the thing and my buttons are loose or even off. I just want it to fit as I really want this shirt I am saying it sincerely. Good luck. Mine is fitting ok and now wearable after washer/dryer. However, I heard the different fabrics can act very different. I am glad HS shrink at least 30% or it will be a total loss.
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Post by exophobe on Nov 9, 2014 17:15:08 GMT -6
I am saying it sincerely. Good luck. Mine is fitting ok and now wearable after washer/dryer. However, I heard the different fabrics can act very different. I am glad HS shrink at least 30% or it will be a total loss. To this end, I'm sort of wondering how well it would work to install snaps on these, or if it would likely just rip out since there are button-holes.
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Nov 9, 2014 17:18:44 GMT -6
I swear as long as my Postal HB WS fits I can care less if the stitches are crooked, I even wont care if i get the thing and my buttons are loose or even off. I just want it to fit as I really want this shirt I am saying it sincerely. Good luck. Mine is fitting ok and now wearable after washer/dryer. However, I heard the different fabrics can act very different. I am glad HS shrink at least 30% or it will be a total loss. I say this because I feel I can fix the other things but not looking great on will be a huge bummer. At this point I think we are kinda knowing what to expect from Gustin and I am actually fine with all that but I just cant imagine who on the Gustin team did they use for the fit of these shirts. I mean unless you are a xs, sm or a med most look HUGE in the photo's iv seen. This has nothing to do with the shirts coming with measurements that are off but its the overall measurements they gave as a starting point that seem to be the bad decision in all of this. There are 2 things they haven't figured out yet. 1) a guy who has a 34 and above waist, doesn't suddenly increase in ankle size to become an damn elephant. I mean why do i want a near 10 inch hem when a guy who has a 32 inch waist gets to look nice and neat in his jeans. 2) on what planet does a WS fit like a Walmart tall dress shirt. So far I think 3 maybe 4 have actually looked good in their WS with the Chambray being the best version and happened to have the best fit photo as well. I am also a bit worried as the Postals should have been shipped based on the last 2 updates which said they would ship 1st week in Nov. Now it says final inspection and will be shipped in 10 days. It makes me worried somethings wrong with my Postal which has me feeling Sad & Postal
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Post by exophobe on Nov 9, 2014 17:37:01 GMT -6
I am also a bit worried as the Postals should have been shipped based on the last 2 updates which said they would ship 1st week in Nov. Now it says final inspection and will be shipped in 10 days. It makes me worried somethings wrong with my Postal which has me feeling Sad & Postal I have five items due before the end of November, 2 more listed as November/December. It doesn't look like any of it went into production until this week, so I'm a little worried about delivery dates through the end of the year, they were pushing with the workshirts to get them out before 10/31, so maybe they were just a little too ambitious, but it doesn't bode well for those second-run workshirts due before the end of November -- though maybe they're intending to work the day after Thanksgiving to get some packages shipped. The latest they've ever been in shipping stuff (to the projected date) has been a week so far, so who knows, maybe it'll all be here by the first week of December regardless. Edit: oh yeah, the chinos. the chinos were epically late, wanna say six weeks, but Gustin announced that they were having trouble getting the chambray liner fabric.
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Nov 9, 2014 17:45:18 GMT -6
I am also a bit worried as the Postals should have been shipped based on the last 2 updates which said they would ship 1st week in Nov. Now it says final inspection and will be shipped in 10 days. It makes me worried somethings wrong with my Postal which has me feeling Sad & Postal I have five items due before the end of November, 2 more listed as November/December. It doesn't look like any of it went into production until this week, so I'm a little worried about delivery dates through the end of the year, they were pushing with the workshirts to get them out before 10/31, so maybe they were just a little too ambitious, but it doesn't bode well for those second-run workshirts due before the end of November -- though maybe they're intending to work the day after Thanksgiving to get some packages shipped. The latest they've ever been in shipping stuff (to the projected date) has been a week so far, so who knows, maybe it'll all be here by the first week of December regardless. Edit: oh yeah, the chinos. the chinos were epically late, wanna say six weeks, but Gustin announced that they were having trouble getting the chambray liner fabric. I think the Postal was maybe the 4th or 5th WS if I remember. So far we have seen 3 WS hit mailboxes right?
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Post by exophobe on Nov 9, 2014 17:50:09 GMT -6
First batch is:
Postal Blue Herringbone Workshirt Japan Heavy Black Workshirt IndigoXIndigo Workshirt Indigo Stripe Workshirt Japan Hickory Stripe Workshirt Indigo Chambray Workshirt
I think the only shirts in the wild are the chambray, IxI, and HS1.
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Post by jamesr on Nov 9, 2014 18:29:29 GMT -6
My Japan Heavy Black WS hasn't shipped yet.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2014 21:14:53 GMT -6
Those gussets are seriously asymmetric. That could indicate a simple issue (the gussets are not sewn in evenly but the two sides of the shirt are even) or a complex and more serious issue (the whole shirt is uneven and the gussets are just on there crooked by default as there was no way to line them up evenly). The first issue is fixable by a tailor or if a person is sewing savvy but the second is likely not fixable without reconstructing the entire shirt. Either issue is one that would be considered a manufacturing error on the cheapest dress shirts (that's being generous). I've honestly never seen anything like that on a commercially produced shirt that wasn't marked irregular, even when I was younger and bought throwaway dress shirts for work.
Rather than ask wils for more measuring and info as I sense he's sick and tired of this shirt and the whole scenario, I'm going to cross my fingers and hope for neither issue on my upcoming WSs.
Those gussets would be laughable on a 40 dollar shirt. On a 150 dollar shirt, they are a sign that someone, possibly more than one someone, simply does not give a shit at all about their brand. Doesn't matter if the workshirts are dropped shipped straight from the sew shop (and I'm sure the sew shop will get blamed), Gustin's name is on the label and this is 100% on them and their "premium menswear" rep. It's sad.
Still hoping for three good work shirts, but guys, it's getting tough to be optimistic. Sorry if this comes off as negative or piling on but damn, enough already with the shit tier workmanship, Gustin. Pretty much going to take all of mine straight to the tailor for more substantial buttons and a reshape of the bottom scoops and length no matter what. Haven't seen any indication otherwise.
Two buttons fell off as well. First wash. Wow.
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Post by jeffrx on Nov 9, 2014 21:24:51 GMT -6
I ordered three Lawless shirts and look forward to them, but I am also (apparently one of the few) one who likes the Gustin IxI WS. I guess this is because I'm not a skinny guy and need the extra fabric that you all hate. LOL I think it's a badass shirt and I like the chainstitch runoff. Hopefully the wabisabi and the Lawless shirts are just as nice.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2014 21:40:24 GMT -6
Thanks Steve on not asking me to measure it. Except I still need to sew those buttons back, I am not going to pay too much attention to the shirt. It is not worth my time and energy to be bothered by it. If the G doesn't fix the size of the next batch, I am sure I will be going through this all over again with my Wabisabi.
As I said that many times, I am going to learn from this and will not ever buy an $140 shirt sight unseen. I am old enough and should know better.
"Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."
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Post by DigDug on Nov 9, 2014 21:55:09 GMT -6
I ordered three Lawless shirts and look forward to them, but I am also (apparently one of the few) one who likes the Gustin IxI WS. I guess this is because I'm not a skinny guy and need the extra fabric that you all hate. LOL I think it's a badass shirt and I like the chainstitch runoff. Hopefully the wabisabi and the Lawless shirts are just as nice. Give me hope.... (Still not that many pics regarding fit, not saying that there not fitting right for some). How big are you and what size did you get? I'm usually, kind of patient on this waiting thing. But these WS have me messed up (only way to kind of explain it
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Post by jeffrx on Nov 9, 2014 22:01:24 GMT -6
I ordered three Lawless shirts and look forward to them, but I am also (apparently one of the few) one who likes the Gustin IxI WS. I guess this is because I'm not a skinny guy and need the extra fabric that you all hate. LOL I think it's a badass shirt and I like the chainstitch runoff. Hopefully the wabisabi and the Lawless shirts are just as nice. Give me hope.... (Still not that many pics regarding fit, not saying that there not fitting right for some). How big are you and what size did you get? I'm usually, kind of patient on this waiting thing. But these WS have me messed up (only way to kind of explain it I'm 6'1 and 225 lbs. 44 chest. Got an XXL. In a perfect world, I would be 205-210, but I like to eat.
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Post by DigDug on Nov 9, 2014 22:21:05 GMT -6
Thanks! There's hope yet. I'm 5'11" - 190lb - 41" chest and got a XL I know these WS are going to be long (Gustin posted enough pics before I back it, so that's on me and maybe my tailor) Buttons falling off (not a good thing) but I've had buttons fall of my TS,BareFoot, and other shirts (sucks, but I can deal with that). Wonky gussets (that sucks even more) but Hay, it's hand made, right!!! (Some sarcasm there if it doesn't come across I'm my post
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Post by wisdom on Nov 9, 2014 22:30:33 GMT -6
Those gussets are seriously asymmetric. That could indicate a simple issue (the gussets are not sewn in evenly but the two sides of the shirt are even) or a complex and more serious issue (the whole shirt is uneven and the gussets are just on there crooked by default as there was no way to line them up evenly). The first issue is fixable by a tailor or if a person is sewing savvy but the second is likely not fixable without reconstructing the entire shirt. Either issue is one that would be considered a manufacturing error on the cheapest dress shirts (that's being generous). I've honestly never seen anything like that on a commercially produced shirt that wasn't marked irregular, even when I was younger and bought throwaway dress shirts for work. Rather than ask wils for more measuring and info as I sense he's sick and tired of this shirt and the whole scenario, I'm going to cross my fingers and hope for neither issue on my upcoming WSs. Those gussets would be laughable on a 40 dollar shirt. On a 150 dollar shirt, they are a sign that someone, possibly more than one someone, simply does not give a shit at all about their brand. Doesn't matter if the workshirts are dropped shipped straight from the sew shop (and I'm sure the sew shop will get blamed), Gustin's name is on the label and this is 100% on them and their "premium menswear" rep. It's sad. Still hoping for three good work shirts, but guys, it's getting tough to be optimistic. Sorry if this comes off as negative or piling on but damn, enough already with the shit tier workmanship, Gustin. Pretty much going to take all of mine straight to the tailor for more substantial buttons and a reshape of the bottom scoops and length no matter what. Haven't seen any indication otherwise. Two buttons fell off as well. First wash. Wow. I'm sure if Gustin owned their sew shop, they'd be all over these issues. The fact that they use a subcontractor makes the feedback loop between quality issues in the field and the shop very insensitive.. additionally, discussions around responsibility, what defines quality, what is in the contract, what is in spec., etc. become many times more complicated in a vendor/customer relationship vs. an employer/employee relationship. Issues we uncover for Gustin become points of discussion, and possibly, debate between themselves and their sew shop. Under an employer/employee relationship, these issues become data points that can be taken back to immediately improve quality (as long as the employer sees feedback as useful data and not unwarranted criticism). Honestly, Gustin is pulling one of the only levers it can when it comes to quality issues and that is by compensating the customer for the inconvenience. If they had more control over quality, they'd probably work that angle, too. Given the fact that they can only influence their subcontractor, the amount of useful dialogue they can engage in with customers is very limited, which is probably one of the reasons they have simply chosen to reduce their interactions with us. They can only say, "we're working with our sew shop" so many times before we get tired of hearing it and they get tired of saying it. Fair or not, Gustin is setting the baseline by which their competitors will initially be compared.. they aren't setting the bar particularly high, but they're handicapped by their business model. Maybe they should buy a sew shop..
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Post by DigDug on Nov 9, 2014 22:39:54 GMT -6
A Gustin x Lawless collaboration... Lol
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Post by wisdom on Nov 9, 2014 22:52:36 GMT -6
A Gustin x Lawless collaboration... Lol The idea has come up before, but I think we all know how likely to happen that would be =) ..'sides, I think there are a few more interesting and realistic collaborations out there
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Post by exophobe on Nov 9, 2014 23:31:45 GMT -6
Thanks! There's hope yet. I'm 5'11" - 190lb - 41" chest and got a XL I know these WS are going to be long (Gustin posted enough pics before I back it, so that's on me and maybe my tailor) Buttons falling off (not a good thing) but I've had buttons fall of my TS,BareFoot, and other shirts (sucks, but I can deal with that). Wonky gussets (that sucks even more) but Hay, it's hand made, right!!! (Some sarcasm there if it doesn't come across I'm my post I'm kinda done beating the drum of positivity on the workshirt, but good luck. I can say that the Classic XL Hickory Stripe in my possession is of a fine length, in my opinion, and I am also 5'11". You may not end up with as much space to play with (I'm weighing 168 at this point, probably about 10 more pounds to go), so you might be limited to a cold wash depending on how the chest comes in. I guess be careful with the buttons, though none of mine have shown to be in danger of falling off. I would like to see a button with four holes in it since the fabric is so substantial, but I thought this when they first showed up in the Gustin store, so it wasn't a surprise to me when it showed up. I will say that, if you see a loose thread on a button, NEVER PULL IT since the thread will not stop pulling, just melt it with a lighter and be happy when the button doesn't fall off. Oh, and when doing that, be careful you don't burn your button. As far as I know, this is simply how a button stitch works, so there's nothing Gustin or anyone else could do -- beyond tighter finishing work -- to deal with it. Other than installing snaps, which is what we all wanted in the first place anyway, smaller buttons like on the denim, too, or hell, maybe even those gigantic corozo buttons from the chinos. As far as my future with the shirt, I might see if I can't source some jeans buttons (or other riveted type button, or maybe these little bastards) and replace the cat-eye buttons if they start to give out on me, since I'm essentially using this one like a chore coat anyway. It was a snarky comment, but now I totally want those skull buttons.
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Post by exophobe on Nov 9, 2014 23:37:51 GMT -6
especially for the wabisabi. lawless. Skull Buttons. GO!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2014 1:41:34 GMT -6
Those gussets are seriously asymmetric. That could indicate a simple issue (the gussets are not sewn in evenly but the two sides of the shirt are even) or a complex and more serious issue (the whole shirt is uneven and the gussets are just on there crooked by default as there was no way to line them up evenly). The first issue is fixable by a tailor or if a person is sewing savvy but the second is likely not fixable without reconstructing the entire shirt. Either issue is one that would be considered a manufacturing error on the cheapest dress shirts (that's being generous). I've honestly never seen anything like that on a commercially produced shirt that wasn't marked irregular, even when I was younger and bought throwaway dress shirts for work. Rather than ask wils for more measuring and info as I sense he's sick and tired of this shirt and the whole scenario, I'm going to cross my fingers and hope for neither issue on my upcoming WSs. Those gussets would be laughable on a 40 dollar shirt. On a 150 dollar shirt, they are a sign that someone, possibly more than one someone, simply does not give a shit at all about their brand. Doesn't matter if the workshirts are dropped shipped straight from the sew shop (and I'm sure the sew shop will get blamed), Gustin's name is on the label and this is 100% on them and their "premium menswear" rep. It's sad. Still hoping for three good work shirts, but guys, it's getting tough to be optimistic. Sorry if this comes off as negative or piling on but damn, enough already with the shit tier workmanship, Gustin. Pretty much going to take all of mine straight to the tailor for more substantial buttons and a reshape of the bottom scoops and length no matter what. Haven't seen any indication otherwise. Two buttons fell off as well. First wash. Wow. I'm sure if Gustin owned their sew shop, they'd be all over these issues. The fact that they use a subcontractor makes the feedback loop between quality issues in the field and the shop very insensitive.. additionally, discussions around responsibility, what defines quality, what is in the contract, what is in spec., etc. become many times more complicated in a vendor/customer relationship vs. an employer/employee relationship. Issues we uncover for Gustin become points of discussion, and possibly, debate between themselves and their sew shop. Under an employer/employee relationship, these issues become data points that can be taken back to immediately improve quality (as long as the employer sees feedback as useful data and not unwarranted criticism). Honestly, Gustin is pulling one of the only levers it can when it comes to quality issues and that is by compensating the customer for the inconvenience. If they had more control over quality, they'd probably work that angle, too. Given the fact that they can only influence their subcontractor, the amount of useful dialogue they can engage in with customers is very limited, which is probably one of the reasons they have simply chosen to reduce their interactions with us. They can only say, "we're working with our sew shop" so many times before we get tired of hearing it and they get tired of saying it. Fair or not, Gustin is setting the baseline by which their competitors will initially be compared.. they aren't setting the bar particularly high, but they're handicapped by their business model. Maybe they should buy a sew shop.. I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one, Wisdom. I've been an aerospace engineer (I know you're in the engineering field as well) for about 17 years and except for my current employer - who are a one of a kind launch vehicle operation with minimal subcontractors by design - the entire industry is built on subcontractors. Second and third level contractors are regularly utilized to do incredibly complex things. There is a more extensive use of specifications, contractual paperwork etc but in the case of simpler items, it's just not that difficult. One of my previous positions at a former employer was in space recovery parachutes (so lots of fabric). QC can become a bottomless pit of discussion about measurements, data and specifications but we managed to make very complicated parachutes that literally used acres of fabric, webbing, tubular cord etc and the level of oversight was not overly difficult. Subcontractors were utilized to make certain sub assemblies that were far more complex than a work shirt and the tolerances were much tighter that what is required to be "visually symmetric" such as the case of the gussets on wils shirt. We often used single page inspection sheets and while quality slips happened from the sub to our shop, it was rare and never as blatant as the situation were discussing here. Nothing like that ever went to an end user though but if it had, no excuses would have sufficed to justify it. The sew shop is just across town from Gustin HQ. San Francisco proper is the size of a large suburb. This was the first run of work shirts so there was a lot riding on it reputation wise for Gustin. A new sew shop was supposedly employed and Gustin noted in their own production updates that a dedicated work shirt production manager existed. Not trying to throw someone under the bus here, just saying there was/is a dedicated person here. Clearly the most basic QC was not employed here. If someone just looked at that shirt, no measurements, no guages or templates required, just a 15 second visual once over, they would have caught it and sent it back for rework or scrap. Gustins model does not prevent them from inspecting their product prior to shipping unless they make an actual choice not to inspect their product prior to shipping. Send someone to do it on site at the sew shop, they can grab a latte on the way and chill on BART while they listen to music for a few minutes. If the sew shop is sending items to Gustin for packaging and shipping, then final inspection is even easier. I'm not sure how to be delicate about this, so I won't try (and this is not directed at you, Wisdom, this is a comment at Gustin). The shirt cost 150 dollars and looks like crap. I was actually shocked at the sie to side difference when the pics were posted and I've been really forgiving of Gustin in the past on certain things. The shirt was either not inspected for whatever reason, or the inspection that was conducted allowed those "Frankengssets" to escape the shop...never mind the fact that we don't know if the rest of the shirt is sewn crooked. Either case is inexcusable and if Gustins response in anything other than "we f@cked up and here's how we're going to fix it going forward" then they ought to get out of the work shirt biz. This is the last I'll post about this and I apologize for the rant. Wisdom I have huge respect for you and don't intend this as a slight to you in any way. The next thing I write in this thread will be a (hopefully) good review with pics of my postal HB work shirt.
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Post by julian on Nov 10, 2014 6:01:19 GMT -6
""Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." It's an interesting one, this. From my own direct experience, I can see both sides of the argument. My first four pairs of Gustin jeans came in well under spec. (the closest was a full 1" under, the worst 1.7" under). It got to a point where I figured I should just order the next size up but never actually did so. What happened? The fifth pair came in pretty much bang on spec and the waist size was fine. In fact, they're the best constructed out of all my Gustin jeans and I've still yet to find anything about them that I could remotely claim as a fault in any way. They're honestly a great pair of very well made jeans that truly live up to their '$205' claims. So, I did do the same thing over and over again but the end result was different. But where I do agree with you is that, while people absolutely should expect Gustin products to come in on spec. with regards to sizing, there is little point being surprised when they don't because so many people have highlighted products that haven't come in on spec. Personally, and due to living outside the US (which makes the whole delivery lead time/return shipping thing significantly longer and more expensive), I'm not willing to take the sizing gamble with Gustin anymore. I love that they bring so many great denims to the table and that the are able to produce a great product at a relatively low price - but as another contributor here phrased it (perfectly IMO), it feels as if Gustin is more like a fabric reseller who happens to generally pick cool fabrics. Now that Lawless exists as an alternative, my focus will be with them. I have a feeling that with DD and Roman working together we're going to see some really exciting denim put in front of us. Like so many others, I'm hoping for an IndigoXCoffee as soon as possible and Lawless makes me feel we're actually going to see that. Obviously the next stage is actually receiving the jeans and hoping the fit I've chosen works for me. If it does, I believe Lawless may have hit the sweet spot between not only being a cool fabric vendor but also taking the same level of care and pride in the construction of the finished article. If that proves to be the case, and the whole concept can be sustained on a long-term basis, I can envisage the company being very successful indeed.
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Post by Griffin on Nov 10, 2014 7:45:04 GMT -6
No no no, its CarbonXCoffe!
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Post by julian on Nov 10, 2014 9:26:04 GMT -6
No no no, its CarbonXCoffe! I'll take a pair of those as well, thanks.
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Post by wisdom on Nov 10, 2014 9:36:38 GMT -6
I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one, Wisdom. I've been an aerospace engineer (I know you're in the engineering field as well) for about 17 years and except for my current employer - who are a one of a kind launch vehicle operation with minimal subcontractors by design - the entire industry is built on subcontractors. Second and third level contractors are regularly utilized to do incredibly complex things. There is a more extensive use of specifications, contractual paperwork etc but in the case of simpler items, it's just not that difficult. One of my previous positions at a former employer was in space recovery parachutes (so lots of fabric). QC can become a bottomless pit of discussion about measurements, data and specifications but we managed to make very complicated parachutes that literally used acres of fabric, webbing, tubular cord etc and the level of oversight was not overly difficult. Subcontractors were utilized to make certain sub assemblies that were far more complex than a work shirt and the tolerances were much tighter that what is required to be "visually symmetric" such as the case of the gussets on wils shirt. We often used single page inspection sheets and while quality slips happened from the sub to our shop, it was rare and never as blatant as the situation were discussing here. Nothing like that ever went to an end user though but if it had, no excuses would have sufficed to justify it. The sew shop is just across town from Gustin HQ. San Francisco proper is the size of a large suburb. This was the first run of work shirts so there was a lot riding on it reputation wise for Gustin. A new sew shop was supposedly employed and Gustin noted in their own production updates that a dedicated work shirt production manager existed. Not trying to throw someone under the bus here, just saying there was/is a dedicated person here. Clearly the most basic QC was not employed here. If someone just looked at that shirt, no measurements, no guages or templates required, just a 15 second visual once over, they would have caught it and sent it back for rework or scrap. Gustins model does not prevent them from inspecting their product prior to shipping unless they make an actual choice not to inspect their product prior to shipping. Send someone to do it on site at the sew shop, they can grab a latte on the way and chill on BART while they listen to music for a few minutes. If the sew shop is sending items to Gustin for packaging and shipping, then final inspection is even easier. I'm not sure how to be delicate about this, so I won't try (and this is not directed at you, Wisdom, this is a comment at Gustin). The shirt cost 150 dollars and looks like crap. I was actually shocked at the sie to side difference when the pics were posted and I've been really forgiving of Gustin in the past on certain things. The shirt was either not inspected for whatever reason, or the inspection that was conducted allowed those "Frankengssets" to escape the shop...never mind the fact that we don't know if the rest of the shirt is sewn crooked. Either case is inexcusable and if Gustins response in anything other than "we f@cked up and here's how we're going to fix it going forward" then they ought to get out of the work shirt biz. This is the last I'll post about this and I apologize for the rant. Wisdom I have huge respect for you and don't intend this as a slight to you in any way. The next thing I write in this thread will be a (hopefully) good review with pics of my postal HB work shirt. Oh yeah? Well you can take your opinion and.. Just kidding.. it's really hard to offend me and I believe more progress is made when people can present different opinions than when everyone is sitting around a table agreeing with each other and saying the same thing a thousand different ways (anyone been in one of those meetings?). Actually.. I worked in Aerospace MRO for a good part of my career and I understand exactly what you're saying. You make really good points.. we worked in tenths (ten-thousandths of an inch) tolerances and it was one of the few industries where inspection was considered a "value-added" task, versus waste (I won't digress on this point, but it is generally agreed in ops circles that inspection is waste - right first time!). Perhaps I'm just giving Gustin way too much credit and am giving them too much of an "out" from their responsibilities. I was hoping Cody would list out Gustin's core values, as I don't feel Personal Responsibility is among them. I know if my customers ever felt about me the way I felt about Gustin or if a customer ever had to deal with issues caused to their customer because of a service they OVS'd to me, I'd be out of business. @stevekas.. I'd say everyone on this board conducts themselves in a manner I find respectful and respectable. I'd have a drink with anyone here.
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