Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 21:44:47 GMT -6
I thought they were doing some shirting there too. Am I wrong?
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Post by nater on May 18, 2015 21:50:09 GMT -6
When you really boil it down nothing is truly made in the USA. Hell, almost all of the denim we buy and rave about is woven at mills in Japan, Italy, and elsewhere. Some of the cotton even comes from Zimbabwe. When the denim is sewn into jeans here in the states it's done so on machines with parts which were manufactured overseas, the workers sit on chairs which were manufactured in Taiwan. Etc, etc, etc.
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Post by exophobe on May 18, 2015 22:03:12 GMT -6
I thought they were doing some shirting there too. Am I wrong? Yes, unless they're outright liars.
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Post by exophobe on May 18, 2015 22:27:17 GMT -6
When you really boil it down nothing is truly made in the USA. Hell, almost all of the denim we buy and rave about is woven at mills in Japan, Italy, and elsewhere. Some of the cotton even comes from Zimbabwe. When the denim is sewn into jeans here in the states it's done so on machines with parts which were manufactured overseas, the workers sit on chairs which were manufactured in Taiwan. Etc, etc, etc. This isn't about nationalism, it's about fair labor treatment. Sometimes it doesn't make sense to make things in one place over another. For example there's no benefit to making porcelain anywhere but China, as that's where the material comes from, and that's where all the manufacturers of it are. Juki still manufactures industrial machines in Japan, I believe all the chain stitch machines out there were made in the USA, though I would guess maybe replacement parts might come out of China. Many of the finest shoe manufacturers are in Italy, if Gustin has gone to the extent that Patagonia does in vetting their manufacturers, and they are not taking advantage of people to make shoes and sell them to me, then I'm not that upset about it. I think they need to address it, though, since their main page, right now, says "Always made in America", and I haven't heard of Italy being annexed by the United States -- I imagine that'd be big news.
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Post by exophobe on May 18, 2015 22:32:18 GMT -6
I thought people (especially reddit and SF) were staying away from OSB since they cut like every corner possible. Someone deconstructed a shoe and found they really cheaped out. I believe you're thinking of Thursday Boot Company? Oak Street has videos of the manufacture of their boots. Either way, if you could throw some links for the OSB deconstruction I'd be curious.
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Post by julian on May 18, 2015 23:12:11 GMT -6
If so, are you confident that all workers are Italian citizens and/or protected at the same level as citizens under EU labor standards? To be fair, and maybe clear up any potential misconceptions, the way the EU works means that any number of workers in any given EU nation may well not be citizens of that nation. Under EU law, anybody from any other EU member state can live and work in any other EU member state for as long as they like and never be a citizen of their host nation. That's not only a legal right, but one enshrined in and specifically encouraged by EU legislation. As an example, the company based in Italy that makes G's footwear could be entirely owned, run and staffed by Estonians and it would all be entirely legal. In fact, they'd probably be supported by EU grants. The EU also has to deal with the fact that many countries outside the EU have the route for their citizens to gain legal entry to EU nations via archaic ex-colonial links. For example, Goans are entitled to Portugese passports... and as Portugal is an EU member state, those Goans who hold a Portugese passport could fly to Italy and then, perfectly legally, live and work there for the rest of their lives. All they need is an EU member state passport. Any EU company operating within any EU nation must adhere to EU employment/labour regulations as well as those of the nation they're operating in. As with other nations outside the EU, that does not necessarily mean all companies operate within the law. That said, and rather interestingly, Italy is one of the very few countries within the EU that does not have a national minimum wage. Many countries in the EU have a huge problem with illegal immigration - Italy being one of the worst affected - but, again, I would very much doubt that any companies involved in producing the quality of footwear that Gustin might use would be operating that kind of business model. I mean, look at the spotlight that's already been cast on the origins of these items even after a couple of teaser photos. No company operating illegally is going to risk that level of attention.
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Post by exophobe on May 18, 2015 23:12:46 GMT -6
I thought people (especially reddit and SF) were staying away from OSB since they cut like every corner possible. Someone deconstructed a shoe and found they really cheaped out. I believe you're thinking of Thursday Boot Company? Oak Street has videos of the manufacture of their boots. Either way, if you could throw some links for the OSB deconstruction I'd be curious. So I've been able to find a couple mentions of the OSB loafers not being up to snuff because some guy had deconstructed them once, but can't find the post where the guy deconstructed them. I also found this reddit post which posits that the handsewn stuff is made in the same factory as pretty much every other handsewn made in Maine, and that the trenches come out of a shop in New York state. I'm starting to think maybe Red Wing is the only thing that people on reddit don't hate, but that's probably because I haven't looked.
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Post by quick on May 18, 2015 23:20:41 GMT -6
who manufactures exclusively in USA?!?!
LD&CO!
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Post by bugula on May 19, 2015 5:02:54 GMT -6
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Post by brentkuz on May 19, 2015 5:10:20 GMT -6
I thought people (especially reddit and SF) were staying away from OSB since they cut like every corner possible. Someone deconstructed a shoe and found they really cheaped out. I believe you're thinking of Thursday Boot Company? Oak Street has videos of the manufacture of their boots. Either way, if you could throw some links for the OSB deconstruction I'd be curious. Pretty sure it was OSB loafer or camp moc. Basically quality of like eastland but priced higher than rancourt.
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Post by exophobe on May 19, 2015 10:25:04 GMT -6
Got a response from Stephen Powell that they'll be releasing more info over the next couple weeks leading up to launch. So, no word regarding the old country just yet.
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Post by brentkuz on May 19, 2015 11:48:06 GMT -6
Got a response from Stephen Powell that they'll be releasing more info over the next couple weeks leading up to launch. So, no word regarding the old country just yet. Either way it's going to come down to price, material, construction. If they are made in USA or Italy it still comes down to that.
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Post by Canucklehead on May 19, 2015 12:36:59 GMT -6
And just like that, "Made in America" disappears from the Gustin Home page....
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Post by exophobe on May 19, 2015 12:39:39 GMT -6
And just like that, "Made in America" disappears from the Gustin Home page.... Still says Made in America on the footer, but the writing's on the wall, so to speak.
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Post by Canucklehead on May 19, 2015 12:43:18 GMT -6
And just like that, "Made in America" disappears from the Gustin Home page.... Still says Made in America on the footer, but the writing's on the wall, so to speak. Oh, it does too! Nice catch, I missed that.
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Post by exophobe on May 19, 2015 12:54:25 GMT -6
Oh, it does too! Nice catch, I missed that. Just waiting for it to change to "Made in... Places"
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Post by Old26 on May 19, 2015 13:19:10 GMT -6
And just like that, "Made in America" disappears from the Gustin Home page.... And if it holds true that the shoes are not made in the USA, then we see why this country is further divided between the haves and have nots. It all sounds good until some VC comes in and says "you guys are going to make $20/pair on those shoes. Move to (fill in the blank) and make $50 a pair! Now, prove me wrong, GUSTIN. But I fear it may not be.
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Post by matt on May 19, 2015 14:12:28 GMT -6
And just like that, "Made in America" disappears from the Gustin Home page.... Still says Made in America on the footer, but the writing's on the wall, so to speak. That copy is within the footer on their template on every page - not as easy to swap out as the "hero image" in the main body. Or, they didn't proof the page(s) when they made the edit.
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Post by youwinatlife on May 19, 2015 14:29:37 GMT -6
And just like that, "Made in America" disappears from the Gustin Home page.... And if it holds true that the shoes are not made in the USA, then we see why this country is further divided between the haves and have nots. It all sounds good until some VC comes in and says "you guys are going to make $20/pair on those shoes. Move to (fill in the blank) and make $50 a pair! Now, prove me wrong, GUSTIN. But I fear it may not be. They have referred to situations like this once or twice in the past specifically and maintained that the vision for their brand/company was just as important as the profit margins. Their blog all but stopped after the big "we do what we love" entry for months, and going by the vibe on this forum and a little on reddit, there was a large surge of disappointment with quality control and fit guides and it seemed things got a little more negative. A bunch of new names at the company, the personal touch starting to dwindle... And I guess all that 100 year old bourbon or whatever it is they occasionally post on IG has to get paid for somehow.
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Post by matt on May 19, 2015 14:40:42 GMT -6
Do you think Cody got fired for trying to talk Josh out of his long-term vision of outsourcing all production to Malaysia and renaming the company "G. Crew"? The shoes could be the first step in his master plan.
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Post by wisdom on May 19, 2015 15:54:39 GMT -6
Do you think Cody got fired for trying to talk Josh out of his long-term vision of outsourcing all production to Malaysia and renaming the company "G. Crew"? The shoes could be the first step in his master plan. I doubt Cody left to take a stand on one issue alone. I feel his perspective more closely mimics the boards, so it's probably all the things that slowly make us disenchanted with Gustin. It's probably easier for him to be moralistic, however, as an employee, and not a partner. Gustin doesn't have to stand for anything. As long as somebody buys their stuff, and they make money, their decisions are validated. As depressing as G's evolution has been, their products still beckon. As much as LD stands on their principles (seriously.. as messed up as their management is, they are still principled), it's not enough to forgive their mistakes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 16:07:35 GMT -6
And just like that, "Made in America" disappears from the Gustin Home page.... And if it holds true that the shoes are not made in the USA, then we see why this country is further divided between the haves and have nots. It all sounds good until some VC comes in and says "you guys are going to make $20/pair on those shoes. Move to (fill in the blank) and make $50 a pair! Now, prove me wrong, GUSTIN. But I fear it may not be. Vietcong?
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Post by Old26 on May 19, 2015 16:39:44 GMT -6
And if it holds true that the shoes are not made in the USA, then we see why this country is further divided between the haves and have nots. It all sounds good until some VC comes in and says "you guys are going to make $20/pair on those shoes. Move to (fill in the blank) and make $50 a pair! Now, prove me wrong, GUSTIN. But I fear it may not be. Vietcong? No. Venture Capitalist(s). Although, it may not be out of the equation to see "Made in Vietnam" on them...
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jdtmn
Full Member
Posts: 162
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Post by jdtmn on May 19, 2015 17:32:13 GMT -6
I have zero interest in shoes not manufactured in the USA. There are plenty of options to buy imported shoes. Simply having them branded by Gustin will do nothing for me. I'll be very disappointed if they change their US manufacturing model - especially on shirts and denim. It will eliminate a major reason I buy from Gustin. Although I understand their product is made from imported materials, at least it's helping generate manufacturing jobs in the States. As the son of a retired auto worker, it's critical for us to maintain good paying manufacturing jobs here.
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Post by brentkuz on May 19, 2015 17:56:59 GMT -6
If they are under $100 maybe after they are tested for quality. I assume they won't touch $100.
Made in America was a cool draw for the company. Sucks they changed one of their core values and marketing campaigns.
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