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Post by Dirty_Denim on Feb 10, 2015 8:23:00 GMT -6
Wait time is a huge concern but I'd cancel my orders if they did this. Maybe it would turn out alright but one of the main draws I have to LD is the "made in house" aspect. QC issues would probably be rampant until they got them nailed down. Then you've got people complaining (rightfully) about QC and the wait time and you've quickly got twice the headache. outsourcing would definitely be a cul-de-sac at least for the afficionados .... Correct! We will not outsource any of what you have purchased. That would be like us lip singing at a concert |
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Post by Winterland on Feb 10, 2015 14:01:27 GMT -6
Is it just me or when you try to add a men's shirt to the cart it asks you to select Kevlar option or you can't add to cart? Tried 2 times Montana shirt. Dirty_DenimBueller Bueller? I still can't add any shirt to my cart without adding Kevlar. Sorry but I don't want Kevlar. Can anyone else see if they can get to the checkout with a shirt? www.ra-denim.com/shirts/men |
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Post by Canucklehead on Feb 10, 2015 14:08:56 GMT -6
Is it just me or when you try to add a men's shirt to the cart it asks you to select Kevlar option or you can't add to cart? Tried 2 times Montana shirt. Dirty_DenimBueller Bueller? I still can't add any shirt to my cart without adding Kevlar. Sorry but I don't want Kevlar. Can anyone else see if they can get to the checkout with a shirt? www.ra-denim.com/shirts/menYou are not going crazy. I just tried it for you and I cannot add a shirt without Kevlar, either. Also, did they just add a bunch of shirt styles or am I on crazy pills? Utah, California, Virginia, etc... |
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Post by Winterland on Feb 10, 2015 14:13:42 GMT -6
Bueller Bueller? I still can't add any shirt to my cart without adding Kevlar. Sorry but I don't want Kevlar. Can anyone else see if they can get to the checkout with a shirt? www.ra-denim.com/shirts/menYou are not going crazy. I just tried it for you and I cannot add a shirt without Kevlar, either. Also, did they just add a bunch of shirt styles or am I on crazy pills? Utah, California, Virginia, etc... Thanks for checking that. Yes they did add more shirt styles but have NOT proofed the website fixed spelling, labeling errors and things that are just wrong and don't work. Lawless did you need me to find all the problems and report it to you for a free shirt and or jeans?? No disrespect but whoever is doing the job now is not very good at it. Dirty_Denim |
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Feb 10, 2015 14:49:38 GMT -6
Just had the big guy fix it @winterland
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2015 14:59:52 GMT -6
Just got an email from LD that I believe my slub denim jeans from my first order is coming. If the jeans fits like my chino, it will be a huge win for me. Only issue is the denim a bit heavy for summer wear and I don't have time for it until next fall. I am still battling with my N&F E4 and I think it will be the only jeans I wear for the rest of the winter/early spring.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2015 15:00:35 GMT -6
You are not going crazy. I just tried it for you and I cannot add a shirt without Kevlar, either. Also, did they just add a bunch of shirt styles or am I on crazy pills? Utah, California, Virginia, etc... Thanks for checking that. Yes they did add more shirt styles but have NOT proofed the website fixed spelling, labeling errors and things that are just wrong and don't work. Lawless did you need me to find all the problems and report it to you for a free shirt and or jeans?? No disrespect but whoever is doing the job now is not very good at it. Dirty_DenimThey had this issue with the original website, and when I brought it up in one of the LD threads, I was told to PM Sal instead of posting it in the thread. |
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Post by Winterland on Feb 10, 2015 15:23:28 GMT -6
Thanks for checking that. Yes they did add more shirt styles but have NOT proofed the website fixed spelling, labeling errors and things that are just wrong and don't work. Lawless did you need me to find all the problems and report it to you for a free shirt and or jeans?? No disrespect but whoever is doing the job now is not very good at it. Dirty_DenimThey had this issue with the original website, and when I brought it up in one of the LD threads, I was told to PM Sal instead of posting it in the thread. I wanted to see if it was just something with me or my browser. Sounds like it is an actual website problem. I did PM and tag Sal also as it seems like an urgent issue buyers not being able to purchase shirts. |
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Post by julian on Feb 15, 2015 5:00:16 GMT -6
As I head into the start of week 15 since my first Lawless order, I'm starting to really wonder about their model. Pretty sure Sal said that they had capacity and capability of producing 20 pairs of jeans per day.
At the current time period since my order that means they could/should have completed and shipped 2100 ((15x7)x20) items. Even if every order up until my order had averaged 5 items, that means my order number 291 should long since have been completed and with me.
Was talking to a friend of mine last night who also ordered a pair last year and, the same as my two other friends who've previously ordered from both Gustin and Lawless, he was saying, 'Never again'. This model of waiting four months for a pair of jeans just saps any and all enjoyment from the buying experience... and even then it only has any chance of working for people who don't actually have any genuine need for the product (not ideal for most retailers).
I also firmly believe I'll be predisposed to dislike the jeans, and be much more critical of them, when/if they do finally arrive at some point. The resentment built up during the extended lead time period will ultimately be transferred to the physical product, which is a real shame.
That's before I even get into whether the things are close to being the right fit for me...
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Post by hotchile on Feb 15, 2015 8:22:04 GMT -6
As I head into the start of week 15 since my first Lawless order, I'm starting to really wonder about their model... You and me both - 104 days, 14 weeks and 6 days.
And the killer? The Lawless website still says "Please allow 8-10 weeks for delivery on all semi-custom orders." For all jeans. Anyone here believe that timeline? Honesty would go further right now than the constant schedule slip, the 50% discount codes, the "make your own jeans for $700" weekend events. Seriously - what is the current backlog? If I order the 16.5 Cone Special this morning, will I really have those jeans in 8-10 weeks, or is that just a "wishing might just make it so" estimate?
And remember this email from January 9, 2015: "I know you heard of the 8 to 10 week turn time and there is truth to that but there is also some who have and will receive orders in 12 to 14 weeks."
Has anyone even received an order from the new website yet?
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Post by Whiskey Mercenary on Feb 15, 2015 9:00:35 GMT -6
I'm at 103 days. It's getting pretty f!@king annoying. There needs to be a lot more transparency and communication and *gasp* maybe a sincere apology letter signed and mailed out to customers who have been waiting this long and longer. I mean, some guys are seeing 17 week waits on an order which was supposed to take 6-8 weeks. Absurd.
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Post by usctroll on Feb 15, 2015 9:03:08 GMT -6
I'd like a general update from Sal. I'm order 304 and I know the people who are hundreds higher (but only ordered 3-4 days later) are going to be insanely late. Like 5-6 months wait time. I won't be able to use the trucker or heavy shirt by the time they get here because of TX spring weather. I just hope my Kevlar jeans make it by March for my favorite month of the riding season.
Proposed update format.
Orders now cutting:
Orders now seeing:
Orders now shipping:
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2015 9:15:51 GMT -6
I'd like a general update from Sal. I'm order 304 and I know the people who are hundreds higher (but only ordered 3-4 days later) are going to be insanely late. Like 5-6 months wait time. I won't be able to use the trucker or heavy shirt by the time they get here because of TX spring weather. I just hope my Kevlar jeans make it by March for my favorite month of the riding season. Proposed update format. Orders now cutting: Orders now seeing: Orders now shipping: Im at 16 weeks for my first 2 orders. I received an email the other day saying that my order (no indication of order number or which item(s)) are in the sewing stage. The email didn't give any estimate of duration, rather went into how much work is left, detailing each seam and machine that must be used. The wrap up was to say I'd get another email when they move into detail\quality control. It was nice to get an unsolicited email on status, but instead of it seeming like things are going well and there might be some sense of urgency due to the delay it seemed more like 'you have no idea how much work goes into these jeans...we have to switch between all of these machines'...almost an excuse for the long timeline. It probably won't be taken as such if they ever get down to a real 8-10 weeks, but to read it at 16 weeks wasn't very warm and fuzzy. Considering both of my first two orders contain 2-3 items each (barely remember what I ordered without checking on the site), I'm reluctant to think the email was intended for all items...i just am not that optimistic at this point. I'd guess the first order might arrive around the 20-22 week mark. |
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Post by jeffrx on Feb 15, 2015 9:38:36 GMT -6
They announced another 50% off sale on instagram yesterday too. Their product seems good enough, but the wait time is way too long and, even worse, not accurate. I'm probably not going to order anything else from them.
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Post by wdw on Feb 15, 2015 9:47:55 GMT -6
I'm 5 November and climbing. It's just beyond ridiculous, to the point where it seems they've totally lost control and haven't a clue what's going on. Yet they still offer the 50% off and build up the order book.
I also have an order in the high 2,400s, and that now looks like Christmas is a real possibility. What an effin' joke.
I cancelled 3 of the 4 on my 5 November order and have since gone back to G, as at least I'll get them in less than 3 months, and they usually have much more interesting fabrics.
I also have an order due in this week from Ciano, and if that works out he'll be my first choice from now on due to his 5-6 week turnaround, assuming he has tempting fabrics.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2015 10:31:13 GMT -6
Hey, where is the negative police? Can I be that guy? OK! Let me be that guy. Normally there is a bunch, but hey, out of many, I am one! E pluribus unum! "hey guys, I know you have a 'boner' for lawless. Why don't you change the record? Sell the record, buy a xylophone and make your own music? If you don't like it, get a refund! Arrrgh! I got my jeans. They talk to me all the time and send cute photos*. So the problem must be you! There is a lesson to be learned here." Hey, it is fun being that guy! Now I know why people do it to me! YAY! I am superior and I will tell you which side the bread is buttered. My horse is high and my opinion is just. Nah, it is cool. Sorry guys. Be negative all you want. I am somewhere in the 2,000's as well. I knew it would be a weird time going into this thing which is keeping me OK with it, but I understand, brahs. *note: Lawless doesn't talk to me all the time nor do they send me cute photos. I told them to take their time on this 2,000's order and as long as I get my 10oz's by summer, everything is cool. That might be a pipe dream though. I might be on the negative train sometime in April when the heat starts. Wait...Pipe dream? Who dreams about pipes? Me! I have boners for jeans manufacturers. Wait...I just looked up "boner"...I thought it meant that guy from Growing Pains! I don't have "boners" for jeans manufacturers...unless we talking about that girl on the lawless photos with the motorcycle and the pants and stuff. Dude, she fly. Ok, sorry for the rant, guys. Nobody here has boners.  Oh boy! Banyan tree picture fro today! Gustin American Orange ID's. My first pair of denims of this nature. |
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Post by exophobe on Feb 15, 2015 10:36:43 GMT -6
Oh boy! Banyan tree picture fro today! Gustin American Orange ID's. My first pair of denims of this nature. The sunlight looks like a crazy bleach accident. |
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Post by quick on Feb 15, 2015 10:39:36 GMT -6
Think maybe they are short on cash, that's why they are offering 50% off?
I can't think of why a business would offer more sales if they are 10 weeks behind schedule.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2015 10:46:08 GMT -6
Think maybe they are short on cash, that's why they are offering 50% off? I can't think of why a business would offer more sales if they are 10 weeks behind schedule. I am thinking it is more cash and trying to get things started. To get people on board and then keep them after the price goes back to normal. With the backlog, it might...backfire! I remember Gustin had some crazy deal where if you got someone else to buy the jeans, they get $20 off and you get $40 off. Still not quite 50% off, but they also don't have the same rent as Frisco. (correction...it was 50% off the original price at $81 for most jeans...but only for the one person...but you can do the maths) The worst part was, none of my friends gave a crap about jeans and I couldn't convince anyone to spend over $30 for a pair of jeans. |
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Post by wdw on Feb 15, 2015 10:54:33 GMT -6
LD aren't doing themselves any favours with these frequent 50% off sales, as it tends to devalue the brand, with people expecting a 50% "discount" or going elsewhere. After I got my refund, I had had enough, but then I saw another 50% sale so jumped again and ordered a couple of shirts, whilst fully expecting a 5 month wait time. No way would I order at full price unless delivery was down to 2 months max.
G doing the 17oz at only $74 isn't far off LD discount prices, with likely a much quicker turnaround time.
Ciano seems to be more normal priced, with no obvious bargains, but his timescale is so much better it's worth paying more if the product is good enough. I can only hope his workmanship is acceptable, but I'll find out soon enough.
One thing this whole fiasco has reinforced is that words come cheap and that whilst it's easy to talk the talk, walking the walk is a different ball game entirely.
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Post by DigDug on Feb 15, 2015 10:55:57 GMT -6
We're "investing" in a company right now. As with all small buisnesses (exspecially a KS one).
Years from now we'll be able to say, remember when.
As long as the Fabric,Price,Fit are good most of us will wait.
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Post by Whiskey Mercenary on Feb 15, 2015 11:12:42 GMT -6
I'm not investing. I purchased a product with a timeline for completion. That timeline has been blown out of the water. If they want to play the small business card, they need to get their act together and communicate openly.
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Post by jbreitenbucher on Feb 15, 2015 11:19:50 GMT -6
As far as I am concerned the biggest issue is the lack of regular, frank, open communication about what is going on. Regular honest order updates would go a long way. I know I (and I assume others) have mentioned this to Sal and Roman several times in the past. I also know that several have let them know that they need to tighten up the website (spelling, proper listing, fabric descriptions), but for whatever reason these things don't seem to be getting addressed. I don't plan on jumping ship and asking for refunds, but like others I have been looking elsewhere for denim (or deciding to put those funds toward a watch or Aldens).
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Post by seth on Feb 15, 2015 11:25:31 GMT -6
As I head into the start of week 15 since my first Lawless order, I'm starting to really wonder about their model. Pretty sure Sal said that they had capacity and capability of producing 20 pairs of jeans per day. At the current time period since my order that means they could/should have completed and shipped 2100 ((15x7)x20) items. Even if every order up until my order had averaged 5 items, that means my order number 291 should long since have been completed and with me. Was talking to a friend of mine last night who also ordered a pair last year and, the same as my two other friends who've previously ordered from both Gustin and Lawless, he was saying, 'Never again'. This model of waiting four months for a pair of jeans just saps any and all enjoyment from the buying experience... and even then it only has any chance of working for people who don't actually have any genuine need for the product (not ideal for most retailers). I also firmly believe I'll be predisposed to dislike the jeans, and be much more critical of them, when/if they do finally arrive at some point. The resentment built up during the extended lead time period will ultimately be transferred to the physical product, which is a real shame. That's before I even get into whether the things are close to being the right fit for me... Julian - hey. Good to see people from the other forum here. Yes, I'm going through exactly what you describe. I'm waiting 3.5 months now for a shirt. I'm not sure I can buy another because I don't know if the fit is going to be right. I can only rationalize waiting so long because I don't need the item. At some points, I think about just cancelling. The lead time is past point of "looking forward to it" now it's close to just making me annoyed. I hadn't considered the possibility that I might transfer my annoyance to the product itself. Interesting idea in consumer psychology. It does make me think that a business model of "back it - build it - wait - get it" must account for customer expectations around the overall lag time. I don't expect 2-3 week lag - though that would be excellent, but at 4 months lag you get customers who may no longer care about the product. That's not a good situation for a retailer to create. Seems like they'd want to generate excitement and exceed expectations in a reasonable amount of time. So far, they aren't doing that. It's primarily the price point that keeps me coming back. Rant over. |
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Post by seth on Feb 15, 2015 11:39:07 GMT -6
When they missed the time-to-completion estimate of 8-10 weeks, they did send me an email saying 12-14 weeks was their updated estimate. That was open communication about things. Today, my account says "awaiting fulfillment" 13 weeks after the order. I wonder if they'll miss the time-to-completion estimate twice and exceed 14 weeks. I'm up in the air about the whole situation.
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