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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 19:40:50 GMT -6
Thank you for the diagnosis, Dr. I'm pretty sure they're doing just fine. Thanks for the asshole comment. Lol sorry. It was just your statement was so Captain Obvious-like. Competitively priced with good fabrics to remain competitive. |
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Post by bentin on Jun 30, 2015 20:25:08 GMT -6
Thanks for the asshole comment. Lol sorry. It was just your statement was so Captain Obvious-like. Competitively priced with good fabrics to remain competitive. Not trying to dogpile, but who is Gustin's competition? If it's Lawless, they're certainly kicking ass. |
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Post by exophobe on Jun 30, 2015 20:38:23 GMT -6
Lol sorry. It was just your statement was so Captain Obvious-like. Competitively priced with good fabrics to remain competitive. Not trying to dogpile, but who is Gustin's competition? If it's Lawless, they're certainly kicking ass. Given what they do, I consider Naked and Famous their most direct competition. Even though the funding model is different, they line up pretty close as far as jeans go. Otherwise, you have to look at something like Japan Blue or Unbranded. It seems like that's about where the construction is, and those are the companies that do a variety of denim at around that price point. I don't think anyone here is going to put them in the same category as the $300 jeans they undercut on price, short of a couple different rare items, but then those are hitting $130-170 now, which (to get at Brent's point) is hitting in the price range of those companies having their own fabrics milled, with well established fits (Oni, Momotaro, Sugar Cane, etc.) that have a more unique perspective to offer to someone with a few pairs or a pile of Gustin in their closet. |
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Post by brentkuz on Jun 30, 2015 20:41:25 GMT -6
When you can get a pair of Japanese repro brands for $160-250 it's hard to back a $127 13oz Gustin basic indigo when you have to wait 3 months.
If you haven't read the forum here at least the thrill of Gustin has faded (pun intended)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 21:02:01 GMT -6
When you can get a pair of Japanese repro brands for $160-250 it's hard to back a $127 13oz Gustin basic indigo when you have to wait 3 months. If you haven't read the forum here at least the thrill of Gustin has faded (pun intended) you're looking too much in the eyes of knowledgeable denimheads, i.e. a lot of people here in s&s, and not enough with the eyes of the average consumer. Not many people know about Rakuten or Denimio or other cheap outlets for higher quality denims. Nor does the average consumer follow the price of the yen and it's effects on denim pricing. They will believe IH, PBJ, Momos, etc are very expensive and out of their justifiable price range. And that's who G markets to. Also, saying $127 for the 13oz Japanese fabric being offered is too high is being silly. It's like saying I can't justify paying x amount for this fabric because it's 6 oz less than this fabric. It's a different fabric, it's priced the way it is, take it or leave it. Lastly, of course the thrill has faded for most of us. Many of us came from GComm, and came here because we were interested in delving into new companies after being done with G". It was also the main reason why this forum was created. To discuss other companies, particularly the train wreck that is LD, outside of GComm. Remember Denimbros? If they didn't kick us out, we'd probably be there instead of here. |
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Post by exophobe on Jun 30, 2015 21:31:51 GMT -6
When you can get a pair of Japanese repro brands for $160-250 it's hard to back a $127 13oz Gustin basic indigo when you have to wait 3 months. If you haven't read the forum here at least the thrill of Gustin has faded (pun intended) you're looking too much in the eyes of knowledgeable denimheads, i.e. a lot of people here in s&s, and not enough with the eyes of the average consumer. Not many people know about Rakuten or Denimio or other cheap outlets for higher quality denims. Nor does the average consumer follow the price of the yen and it's effects on denim pricing. They will believe IH, PBJ, Momos, etc are very expensive and out of their justifiable price range. And that's who G markets to. Also, saying $127 for the 13oz Japanese fabric being offered is too high is being silly. It's like saying I can't justify paying x amount for this fabric because it's 6 oz less than this fabric. It's a different fabric, it's priced the way it is, take it or leave it. Lastly, of course the thrill has faded for most of us. Many of us came from GComm, and came here because we were interested in delving into new companies after being done with G". It was also the main reason why this forum was created. To discuss other companies, particularly the train wreck that is LD, outside of GComm. Remember Denimbros? If they didn't kick us out, we'd probably be there instead of here. The oni and pbj being referenced are all in the 12-15oz range, not the super-heavy stuff (which does come up and has been talked about). The $127 price point is only having issue taken with it because there is denim from reputable manufacturers hitting that price point on Rakuten now. I love the selvedge ID on that new drop today, and if I didn't already have like five more pairs of indigo than I already thought I wanted, I'd probably be looking pretty closely at them. The problem is, there is no discount for the waiting, which is half of the Gustin value principle. If I can have Sugar Cane or Momotaro or whatever next week, and it's almost the same price, then you can sure as hell bet I'm going to do my research and see if I can't find something similar at a similar price. I think the reason Gustin becomes a target for this is that they don't currently have the denim on-hand, therefor they are seeing the benefits of pricing, so a drop in the yen should mean that Japanese fabrics offered in the past should actually be cheaper this time. Then you can quickly counter with the fact that they don't set the price of the fabric, so if they have been begging a mill for something (downtown brown), then that mill knows it's a popular product and that they can likely charge Gustin more for it. With the yen being down, I can certainly see Japanese mills following this sort of strategy when selling to Gaijin overseas (don't go to wikipedia if you don't know what that means, that's some definition they have there). If they bought it from Pacific Blue, then that's another set of hands in there that can result in an increase in cost, and their fees wouldn't be affected by the yen. I haven't seen that selvedge ID anywhere else, and I think it's sweet, but I can't justify another pair of jeans, especially if it's indigo and made by Gustin. There's just too much out there at such a good price right now that it's hard to imagine waiting 3 months when I could have something else that I'm more interested in checking out next week. I'm not going to give anyone flack for wanting to get that fabric from Gustin, though, it looks great... Well, unless they refuse to share pictures of it (again, everyone is super-stingy with the denim porn lately). |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 21:44:19 GMT -6
you're looking too much in the eyes of knowledgeable denimheads, i.e. a lot of people here in s&s, and not enough with the eyes of the average consumer. Not many people know about Rakuten or Denimio or other cheap outlets for higher quality denims. Nor does the average consumer follow the price of the yen and it's effects on denim pricing. They will believe IH, PBJ, Momos, etc are very expensive and out of their justifiable price range. And that's who G markets to. Also, saying $127 for the 13oz Japanese fabric being offered is too high is being silly. It's like saying I can't justify paying x amount for this fabric because it's 6 oz less than this fabric. It's a different fabric, it's priced the way it is, take it or leave it. Lastly, of course the thrill has faded for most of us. Many of us came from GComm, and came here because we were interested in delving into new companies after being done with G". It was also the main reason why this forum was created. To discuss other companies, particularly the train wreck that is LD, outside of GComm. Remember Denimbros? If they didn't kick us out, we'd probably be there instead of here. The oni and pbj being referenced are all in the 12-15oz range, not the super-heavy stuff (which does come up and has been talked about). The $127 price point is only having issue taken with it because there is denim from reputable manufacturers hitting that price point on Rakuten now. I love the selvedge ID on that new drop today, and if I didn't already have like five more pairs of indigo than I already thought I wanted, I'd probably be looking pretty closely at them. The problem is, there is no discount for the waiting, which is half of the Gustin value principle. If I can have Sugar Cane or Momotaro or whatever next week, and it's almost the same price, then you can sure as hell bet I'm going to do my research and see if I can't find something similar at a similar price.I think the reason Gustin becomes a target for this is that they don't currently have the denim on-hand, therefor they are seeing the benefits of pricing, so a drop in the yen should mean that Japanese fabrics offered in the past should actually be cheaper this time. Then you can quickly counter with the fact that they don't set the price of the fabric, so if they have been begging a mill for something (downtown brown), then that mill knows it's a popular product and that they can likely charge Gustin more for it. With the yen being down, I can certainly see Japanese mills following this sort of strategy when selling to Gaijin overseas (don't go to wikipedia if you don't know what that means, that's some definition they have there). If they bought it from Pacific Blue, then that's another set of hands in there that can result in an increase in cost, and their fees wouldn't be affected by the yen. I haven't seen that selvedge ID anywhere else, and I think it's sweet, but I can't justify another pair of jeans, especially if it's indigo and made by Gustin. There's just too much out there at such a good price right now that it's hard to imagine waiting 3 months when I could have something else that I'm more interested in checking out next week. I'm not going to give anyone flack for wanting to get that fabric from Gustin, though, it looks great... Well, unless they refuse to share pictures of it (again, everyone is super-stingy with the denim porn lately). But you're a denim scientist. And I'm having difficulty believing that, outside of the members of this forum (even if you are a member of another forum like Reddit/SF, you are being counted as a member of this forum for the intent and purpose of my point), there are many who know about Rakuten and buying cheap Japanese merch there. So I'm going to continue to argue that we can't use Rakuten prices as a comparison base for the average consumer. Also, that denim hasn't been offered before. So we don't know what the original price was, if it was lowered, or what the lowered price point should be. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2015 9:08:43 GMT -6
When you can get a pair of Japanese repro brands for $160-250 it's hard to back a $127 13oz Gustin basic indigo when you have to wait 3 months. If you haven't read the forum here at least the thrill of Gustin has faded (pun intended) you're looking too much in the eyes of knowledgeable denimheads, i.e. a lot of people here in s&s, and not enough with the eyes of the average consumer. Not many people know about Rakuten or Denimio or other cheap outlets for higher quality denims. Nor does the average consumer follow the price of the yen and it's effects on denim pricing. They will believe IH, PBJ, Momos, etc are very expensive and out of their justifiable price range. And that's who G markets to. Also, saying $127 for the 13oz Japanese fabric being offered is too high is being silly. It's like saying I can't justify paying x amount for this fabric because it's 6 oz less than this fabric. It's a different fabric, it's priced the way it is, take it or leave it. Lastly, of course the thrill has faded for most of us. Many of us came from GComm, and came here because we were interested in delving into new companies after being done with G". It was also the main reason why this forum was created. To discuss other companies, particularly the train wreck that is LD, outside of GComm. Remember Denimbros? If they didn't kick us out, we'd probably be there instead of here. So your saying I joined a board of misfits and malcontents? How the hell did that happen! I've been duped! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2015 9:33:13 GMT -6
you're looking too much in the eyes of knowledgeable denimheads, i.e. a lot of people here in s&s, and not enough with the eyes of the average consumer. Not many people know about Rakuten or Denimio or other cheap outlets for higher quality denims. Nor does the average consumer follow the price of the yen and it's effects on denim pricing. They will believe IH, PBJ, Momos, etc are very expensive and out of their justifiable price range. And that's who G markets to. Also, saying $127 for the 13oz Japanese fabric being offered is too high is being silly. It's like saying I can't justify paying x amount for this fabric because it's 6 oz less than this fabric. It's a different fabric, it's priced the way it is, take it or leave it. Lastly, of course the thrill has faded for most of us. Many of us came from GComm, and came here because we were interested in delving into new companies after being done with G". It was also the main reason why this forum was created. To discuss other companies, particularly the train wreck that is LD, outside of GComm. Remember Denimbros? If they didn't kick us out, we'd probably be there instead of here. So your saying I joined a board of misfits and malcontents? How the hell did that happen! I've been duped! Well, I meant that this board is full of educated denim scientists, but now that I think about it, yes, yes you did, and yes, yes we are. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2015 9:47:36 GMT -6
Probably why I've stuck around
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Post by brentkuz on Jul 1, 2015 11:06:10 GMT -6
I prefer denimologist.
I just want my dollar to go as far as it can.
Gustin natural 2'a could end up being a great deal. Original priced downtown browns great deal. The 23oz at 197$ not so much. Run of the "mill" mid weight indigo denim for over $120 eh doesn't really catch my eye.
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Post by exophobe on Jul 1, 2015 22:24:41 GMT -6
Big Slubbers came in today, apparently I was feeling fat at the time cause I ordered 34s. If anything were in the running for the poor man's Oni (from pictures, I don't have any cause I spent all my money on Gustin), I think it'd be these. We'll see if that's true a year or so from now. Anyway, these came with the natural veg tan patch, which may be a mistake (doesn't say either way on the campaign), but I'll take it, even though I may need to rethink my belting strategy unless I want it to be blue (I use my heavy brown Gustin belt for all indigo so I don't ruin all my non-indigo pants). These might require a dedicated belt! I'm probably going to save these until I've sufficiently beaten the crap out of the American Sixteeners (90 degree heat makes it pretty awful to wear 16oz - but as an aside, the 11oz herringbone are pretty great), but I have to say, the construction on these is just about impeccable (even though I haven't checked the inside fully for random whatever the hell was on those Zimbabwe Loomies), truly some of the best I've seen out of Gustin, and at a somewhat heavy weight, to boot. The four-way seam in the crotch is one of the straightest I've seen even though the bartack is slightly off-center. They have a much grainier texture than the American Sixteener, much neppier than anything that White Oak can produce, but we all knew that, and Cone is known for not being neppy, so it's not fair. These wouldn't be in the same conversation if they weren't around the same weight and made by Gustin. Anyway, if I ever told anyone that was expecting a veg-tan patch to get over it, I apologize. I wish every pair of Gustin came with one of these after getting ahold of one. #212 Japan Big Slub :    
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Post by ickes on Jul 2, 2015 9:13:14 GMT -6
I knew these would turn out great and I'm glad to hear that your pair sewed up well. The nat veg tan patch is indeed a nice touch and a denim like this deserves that patch. IIRC these were at a very good price point too and if that is the case then I would have to argue that these are one of Gustins best bargains. I remember seeing the swatch and thinking that it was the closest fabric gustin had gotten their hands in comparison to the higher price point Japanese fabrics. They look great.
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Post by bentin on Jul 2, 2015 9:27:12 GMT -6
Yep, those are definitely cool. I guess I'm becoming a denim snob, but the Gustin rivets look terrible.
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Post by exophobe on Jul 2, 2015 9:49:36 GMT -6
Yep, those are definitely cool. I guess I'm becoming a denim snob, but the Gustin rivets look terrible. I prefer what the strike gold does, I don't recall how the pbj and iron heart rivets look. If it really bothers you you could pop them all off and put whatever you want to on there.  |
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Post by bentin on Jul 2, 2015 10:06:37 GMT -6
I only have two pair of Gustins and don't love either fit, so it's not a big deal.
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Post by ickes on Jul 2, 2015 10:34:01 GMT -6
Yep, those are definitely cool. I guess I'm becoming a denim snob, but the Gustin rivets look terrible. I prefer what the strike gold does, I don't recall how the pbj and iron heart rivets look. If it really bothers you you could pop them all off and put whatever you want to on there. Potato cam shot of my IH rivets  |
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Post by bentin on Jul 2, 2015 11:05:17 GMT -6
RgT rivets, nothing fancy, but they don't look fake like G's.  |
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Post by exophobe on Jul 2, 2015 11:19:43 GMT -6
RgT rivets, nothing fancy, but they don't look fake like G's. It's just a different type of rivet. The ones with fancy caps on them have a two piece top, but it's the same concept. The problem this causes is that the rivet looks "taller" and thus "fake". The functionality of the rivet remains the same, though I read that some brand was using rivets with caps with a split nail, which reduces the force necessary to "activate" the fastener, resulting in a more secure rivet. Gustin should do this, and if not, probably ask that the machine be adjusted to get them tighter on the denim (or figure it out with the rivet supplier, presumably the place in Kentucky that provides everyone with their denim rivets. I'm going to replace all mine with these, anyway. |
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Post by bentin on Jul 2, 2015 11:27:11 GMT -6
I guess I just prefer them to look less artificial/more primitive. Roy hammers his, which I kind of prefer the appearance of:  |
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Post by exophobe on Jul 2, 2015 11:52:58 GMT -6
I guess I just prefer them to look less artificial/more primitive. Roy hammers his, which I kind of prefer the appearance of: Yeah, I love the copper rivets. Ciano takes it another step:  |
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Post by ToucanLife on Jul 2, 2015 12:06:54 GMT -6
Wearing my G Quick Fades for 4 days so far - 0 dye transfer or signs of fade potential so far - considering giving them a quick cold soak to loosen up the dye?
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Post by ickes on Jul 2, 2015 12:09:11 GMT -6
Wearing my G Quick Fades for 4 days so far - 0 dye transfer or signs of fade potential so far - considering giving them a quick cold soak to loosen up the dye? that's not a good sign. No indigo transfer to your shoes or shoelaces? That's usually the first indicator I look for and it sometimes happens immediately on the really quick fading pairs. |
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Post by ToucanLife on Jul 2, 2015 12:18:43 GMT -6
Wearing my G Quick Fades for 4 days so far - 0 dye transfer or signs of fade potential so far - considering giving them a quick cold soak to loosen up the dye? that's not a good sign. No indigo transfer to your shoes or shoelaces? That's usually the first indicator I look for and it sometimes happens immediately on the really quick fading pairs. Nothing at all! My Italian I X I G's would leave me looking like a bleeding smurf when I washed my hands after wearing them for 2-3 hours - not even any basic light wear in the crotch - if I rub them with my finger I get no transfer either |
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Post by ickes on Jul 2, 2015 12:20:34 GMT -6
that's not a good sign. No indigo transfer to your shoes or shoelaces? That's usually the first indicator I look for and it sometimes happens immediately on the really quick fading pairs. Nothing at all! My Italian I X I G's would leave me looking like a bleeding smurf when I washed my hands after wearing them for 2-3 hours - not even any basic light wear in the crotch - if I rub them with my finger I get no transfer either Maybe the Cone quick fades mean quick fades by cone standards...which is like double the time of any other mills....idk |
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