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Post by ickes on Dec 14, 2014 10:21:58 GMT -6
I backed the Union Blues. I love the shade and I need a lighter weight pair for summer. I think they look great.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2014 10:34:46 GMT -6
Something tells me Dirty_Denim has seen this fabric firsthand. I like the Union Blue and needs a pair for summer. I am going to wait on LD because I want some differnt thread color for my summer jeans. Something fun. |
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Dec 14, 2014 11:17:13 GMT -6
Something tells me Dirty_Denim has seen this fabric firsthand. Union Blues side by side. This is that fabric that feels really rigid when running your hand against the weave. More so than most 12oz. It is not as light as you see on Gustins page GUSTINS VS LAWLESS |
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Post by quick on Dec 14, 2014 11:32:15 GMT -6
I never would have guessed those were the union blues, Sal.
fabric in the LD picture looks much darker.
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Post by jray on Dec 14, 2014 11:37:02 GMT -6
Me neither but the selvedge id looks the same
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Post by jockohomo on Dec 14, 2014 12:35:34 GMT -6
Something tells me Dirty_Denim has seen this fabric firsthand. Union Blues side by side. This is that fabric that feels really rigid when running your hand against the weave. More so than most 12oz. It is not as light as you see on Gustins page GUSTINS VS LAWLESSSal, I hope you take my comments that follow in a constructive manner. Perusing the Gustin and Lawless pages relating to the same fabric really drives home the reason I can not place an order with Lawless at this time. Gustin provides multiple views of a sewn up pair of jeans that depict the fit as well as the color. Lawless provides 2 swatch pictures that appear so far from the true color that it just amazes me that they are the same fabric. Gustin provides a lengthly description of the fabric, whereas Lawless provides nothing in terms of a written description that could be used to augment the misleading pictures.
I am hoping that in the future better pictures will be provided as well as sewn up examples, along with written descriptions that touch on the color, weave, weight, texture so that I can make an informed buying selection. I have no problem paying your full price rather than 50% off, I just can't do it blindly.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2014 12:54:52 GMT -6
Union Blues side by side. This is that fabric that feels really rigid when running your hand against the weave. More so than most 12oz. It is not as light as you see on Gustins page GUSTINS VS LAWLESSSal, I hope you take my comments that follow in a constructive manner. Perusing the Gustin and Lawless pages relating to the same fabric really drives home the reason I can not place an order with Lawless at this time. Gustin provides multiple views of a sewn up pair of jeans that depict the fit as well as the color. Lawless provides 2 swatch pictures that appear so far from the true color that it just amazes me that they are the same fabric. Gustin provides a lengthly description of the fabric, whereas Lawless provides nothing in terms of a written description that could be used to augment the misleading pictures.
I am hoping that in the future better pictures will be provided as well as sewn up examples, along with written descriptions that touch on the color, weave, weight, texture so that I can make an informed buying selection. I have no problem paying your full price rather than 50% off, I just can't do it blindly.
I think some improvements to photos and description are a valid critique to the current LD site. Gustin only somewhat recently started to post more full product photos themselves. For quite some time they also only posted a swatch of the denim being offered (though have always had the text description). Gustin dealt with (and still does to some extent) a long period of questions and complaints about lack of photos, lack of scale, color shifting, and general photo inconsistencies. They definitely stepped it up in the recent past showing many offerings in full product form. Personally I don't care about seeing most denim sewn into jeans, unless it's something fairly unique that is difficult to imagine, but good photos of fabric warp and weft, perhaps with a comparison shot are important. Shirts, especially with plaids and herringbone fabrics, wools, etc are also more important to see as full products (imho). I think as LD evolves the presentation of fabrics will be finessed and dialed in...much like Gustin's own evolution in this regard. I'm actually hoping that LD takes it a step above in terms of consistency, which has always been one of my beefs with G's photos. |
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Post by brentkuz on Dec 14, 2014 13:01:28 GMT -6
Yeah LD needs to step up the website. Descriptions and photos. Gustins website blows Lawless away.
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Post by bentin on Dec 14, 2014 13:07:44 GMT -6
I agree that LD's photos keep me from ordering from them. It's like they trained at the same place as CarMax, who seem intent on taking the worst photos possible, usually in full sun or in the rain, or even somehow, both.
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Dec 14, 2014 13:53:43 GMT -6
In time my friends. I will answer this in the LD threads
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Dec 14, 2014 14:46:03 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2014 17:34:47 GMT -6
Something tells me Dirty_Denim has seen this fabric firsthand. Union Blues side by side. This is that fabric that feels really rigid when running your hand against the weave. More so than most 12oz. It is not as light as you see on Gustins page GUSTINS VS LAWLESSThanks. Just save me $50 and I just need to figure out the color of thread now..... |
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Post by stinky on Dec 14, 2014 21:34:25 GMT -6
Union Blues side by side. This is that fabric that feels really rigid when running your hand against the weave. More so than most 12oz. It is not as light as you see on Gustins page GUSTINS VS LAWLESSThanks. Just save me $50 and I just need to figure out the color of thread now..... ditto. let me know what your makeup will be. I went copper thread on my last LD indigos. We're 100% certain this is the same fabric? |
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Post by wisdom on Dec 14, 2014 22:02:29 GMT -6
To be fair.. there are good reasons to go with either G or LD on this fabric. Perhaps result is more important than intent, but I didn't mean for this to result in siphoning off customers from G to LD. Personally, though, I'd want to know if a G fabric and LD fabric were identical. I'd then make my own decision on which to spring for. To jockohomo 's credit, some indignation and penalty flags here may have been justified, but he didn't take the shot. |
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Dec 14, 2014 22:38:07 GMT -6
Union Blues side by side. This is that fabric that feels really rigid when running your hand against the weave. More so than most 12oz. It is not as light as you see on Gustins page GUSTINS VS LAWLESSSal, I hope you take my comments that follow in a constructive manner. Perusing the Gustin and Lawless pages relating to the same fabric really drives home the reason I can not place an order with Lawless at this time. Gustin provides multiple views of a sewn up pair of jeans that depict the fit as well as the color. Lawless provides 2 swatch pictures that appear so far from the true color that it just amazes me that they are the same fabric. Gustin provides a lengthly description of the fabric, whereas Lawless provides nothing in terms of a written description that could be used to augment the misleading pictures.
I am hoping that in the future better pictures will be provided as well as sewn up examples, along with written descriptions that touch on the color, weave, weight, texture so that I can make an informed buying selection. I have no problem paying your full price rather than 50% off, I just can't do it blindly.
I think everyone misinterprets why I make mention to LD having a G fabric. I do it to justify that I know what the fabric looks and feels like. I will never be the guy that tries to steal customers by doing something like what I think Jockhomo thinks I am doing. I posted an explanation of the G forum without saying anything about LAwless having it. I wanted people to know a bit about the denim from someone not trying to sell them that its UNION BLUE with exciting explanations. I try to give you guys the perspective of a fellow member not as a LD employee. I seriously don't think like that and like matt did I wore my Gustin jeans & shirt in the LD shop. I am not in competition with G so please do not think thats what I try to do when I say "HEY I KNOW WHAT THIS FABRIC IS" |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2014 22:46:17 GMT -6
To be fair.. there are good reasons to go with either G or LD on this fabric. Perhaps result is more important than intent, but I didn't mean for this to result in siphoning off customers from G to LD. Personally, though, I'd want to know if a G fabric and LD fabric were identical. I'd then make my own decision on which to spring for. To jockohomo 's credit, some indignation and penalty flags here may have been justified, but he didn't take the shot. I want to make sure people aware that this is not a Gustin website any more. Cody/Jock does not have any position to come here and ask people to not talk about similar products from different vendors anymore. Please don't forget the reason that many members left the G forum and came here, so we can fully share information. The key benefit for members here is we can make inform decision based on share knowledge. After all the info, if someone wants to choose one vendor over the other, noone is judging because he probably has good reason to do it. If one vendor losing sales due to posts here, it is mostly because that vendor doesn't provide the value and not being competitive. Vendor should take the inputs/feedback here and do a better job. This is the beauty of free market and this is also the beauty of this forum. |
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Post by wisdom on Dec 14, 2014 22:49:14 GMT -6
I think everyone misinterprets why I make mention to LD having a G fabric. I do it to justify that I know what the fabric looks and feels like. I will never be the guy that tries to steal customers by doing something like what I think Jockhomo thinks I am doing. I posted an explanation of the G forum without saying anything about LAwless having it. I wanted people to know a bit about the denim from someone not trying to sell them that its UNION BLUE with exciting explanations. I try to give you guys the perspective of a fellow member not as a LD employee. I seriously don't think like that and like matt did I wore my Gustin jeans & shirt in the LD shop. I am not in competition with G so please do not think thats what I try to do when I say "HEY I KNOW WHAT THIS FABRIC IS" I didn't think you intended this, Dirty_Denim.. I just wanted to acknowledge that I didn't intend for my prompt to you for information to do any more than provide more information to the rest of us. As long as info is out there, consumers will make up their own minds. Edit: clarification - referring to indignation and penalty flags.. I was referring to my remarks, not anyone else's. |
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Post by matt on Dec 14, 2014 23:13:16 GMT -6
As someone who supports both brands, I find it helpful when you see the same fabric at various shops (not just LD and Gustin), and someone trained in the matter can speak professionally and say "yeah, Gustin ___ denim is actually from the Kiahara mill or it's Candiani" (for example). I think it's very helpful considering the more we all learn about the mills, the more we know about the denim and not just solely basing purchases on craftsmanship. A lot of the obvious denims don't necessarily need to be pointed out, we can tell via the pics and description, but there are some that it's nice to know - especially if it sells out on one site, you can potentially pick up the same fabric elsewhere.
I find it helpful when Dirty or anyone else with a little more insight offers up a little transparency.
As someone who can walk into the shop in Phoenix, I'd say the pictures of the fabric are more accurate than most I've seen. Honestly, it probably varies by the device you're viewing it on.
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Post by jockohomo on Dec 14, 2014 23:39:02 GMT -6
To be fair.. there are good reasons to go with either G or LD on this fabric. Perhaps result is more important than intent, but I didn't mean for this to result in siphoning off customers from G to LD. Personally, though, I'd want to know if a G fabric and LD fabric were identical. I'd then make my own decision on which to spring for. To jockohomo 's credit, some indignation and penalty flags here may have been justified, but he didn't take the shot. I want to make sure people aware that this is not a Gustin website any more. Cody/Jock does not have any position to come here and ask people to not talk about similar products from different vendors anymore. Please don't forget the reason that many members left the G forum and came here, so we can fully share information. The key benefit for members here is we can make inform decision based on share knowledge. After all the info, if someone wants to choose one vendor over the other, noone is judging because he probably has good reason to do it. If one vendor losing sales due to posts here, it is mostly because that vendor doesn't provide the value and not being competitive. Vendor should take the inputs/feedback here and do a better job. This is the beauty of free market and this is also the beauty of this forum. I have no problem with discussing anything on this forum and nothing on this thread bothers me one iota. What does bother me is when I make a comment or follow a vein of reasoning and I get silenced and not the other guy. I am not here to drum up sales for Gustin (they seem to be doing a pretty good job on their own) or stifle Lawless sales. It should come as no surprise to any of you that the more vocal participants on this Forum seem to have an axe to grind with respect to Gustin and that is their prerogative. From everything that I am aware of it seems that some of the complaints strike ME as being silly and irrational or could be easily dealt with by contacting Gustin instead of bitching on this forum.
Could not agree more with Wils last paragraph above! For example, if I was in the market for the Union Blues I would buy from Gustin based upon delivery experience with Gustin and my cautious outlook on Lawless. That is, $50 is not that big of a deal to me and how many people have your heard of that have never received their Gustin order? I just can't look past the turmoil I read about on Reddit, BBB, LD Kickstarter site, YELP, along with other things I am aware of, and pull the trigger on a Lawless product at this time. Maybe someday.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2014 23:58:28 GMT -6
Thanks. Just save me $50 and I just need to figure out the color of thread now..... ditto. let me know what your makeup will be. I went copper thread on my last LD indigos. We're 100% certain this is the same fabric? For $40, I am going to make this fun. I am thinking about Green or Khaki thread with red pocket liner... I have full closet of typical indigo.... |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2014 0:23:53 GMT -6
Yeah LD needs to step up the website. Descriptions and photos. Gustins website blows Lawless away. I think the new LD site is leaps and bounds compared to the old one but yeah, I think it needs to be improved. I agree with most of the suggestions here as well. To me, as long as I can get my order in and it gives me good order tracking/communication, I can overlook some of the cosmetic issues. When I have questions about fabric or fit, I normally ask them here or ask DD through PM. I just asked him about my order from the old system and he had been pretty responsive. |
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Dec 15, 2014 9:30:55 GMT -6
Unfortunately the old site and KS are all printed and in binders to be completed. It is difficult for me to do anything on those because I am in NY and those folders are in AZ.
Gustin really only lets us know what is going on with an order once the factory they use gets the order and begins processing it. Until then it sits with the same message as does Lawless. Id might add, We are running at a rate close to what Gustin gets their orders made as well. Its not that much different other than people trust Gustin so the limbo time (awaiting to be fulfilled) everyone says nothing because they know where its at from experience. People don't trust Lawless because of a lack of experience. During the LD limbo time everyone is nervous because they just do not know. This is a natural experience with anything unknown. Its really not a good comparison and not fair at the moment. I mean if we wanted to we could call up 3 factories to ask them to finish all our orders a bit quicker. That wont happen of course so we are left building like any new brand would.
My Gustin order 69822
Postal Herringbone Wshirt
09/01/2014
Shipped
Classic Fit - XXL
Closed funded
100%
Nov 20 2014
Tracking: 9405510200828394877581
$137.00
My LD order
Purchased Oct 3rd
Completed Dec 5th if shipped I would have received it on Dec 8 th
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Post by bigblack on Dec 15, 2014 9:39:12 GMT -6
My LD order Purchased Oct 3rd Completed Dec 5th if shipped I would have received it on Dec 8th What about everyone else's that ordered from the old site (non-kickstarter) before you? |
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Dec 15, 2014 9:53:20 GMT -6
THe order of all that is all out of whack. Some get sped up because they just stay the course and some get bumped back because we pull them . some get pushed back because maybe we need more fabric. It can be a million things that would have an order arrive sooner or later. Sometimes we can mess up an order so we will make it again. I saw this happen this past trip. The item had a stain on it. We had to remake it which means a that order is now a loss. I am sure Gustin would send a email saying the order didnt meet quality control and give a store credit but we are trying our best to make everyone happy
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2014 10:48:22 GMT -6
THe order of all that is all out of whack. Some get sped up because they just stay the course and some get bumped back because we pull them . some get pushed back because maybe we need more fabric. It can be a million things that would have an order arrive sooner or later. Sometimes we can mess up an order so we will make it again. I saw this happen this past trip. The item had a stain on it. We had to remake it which means a that order is now a loss. I am sure Gustin would send a email saying the order didnt meet quality control and give a store credit but we are trying our best to make everyone happy This is great to hear, and I'm sure there will be continual improvements...but in the case you just listed I'm curious if the re-do of the stained order got bumped back significantly in the queue. If so, once old site and KS orders are cleared and processes can be streamlined it will be beneficial for you and the customer to send notification when something like that takes place. It lets the customer know you're on top of it, not sending sub-par pieces, and smooths over some of the potential concerns over wait time (especially if they get bumped). |
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