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Post by bigblack on Oct 20, 2014 11:19:12 GMT -6
Lawless may get a lot of hate from sufu |
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Oct 20, 2014 12:13:39 GMT -6
I know… I’m a little scared about what this is going to do to my community stats there, but it might also get some love… so it’s worth a try…  SUFU is not the place for LD right now I would let the positive reviews start coming in from KS because as of right now YELP is all there is atm & thats what everyone is stuck on. Regardless there will be some hate coming from anyone who thinks KS projects are shit even though Lawless doing a KS had nothing to do with them needing the funds from it. Lawless was coming out regardless of KS. I mean $70k from KS is nothing compared to what it has already cost & will cost to get what Roman is working on |
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Post by Derek G on Oct 20, 2014 17:40:53 GMT -6
Geeze....tough crowd. I liked your review of the Lawless jeans, and I think the jeans turned out fantastic.
I suppose the crowd over there would never consider a pair of jeans even "halfway decent", unless they cost 4 or 500 bucks. Personally, I wouldn't even want to associate with a bunch of haters like that....not that they would want me there any way... Kinda makes the denim bros seem nice  |
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Post by stinky on Oct 20, 2014 19:57:04 GMT -6
Wow, tough crowd.
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Oct 20, 2014 20:02:11 GMT -6
Thats an OG forum where nothing will get past them. |
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Post by stinky on Oct 20, 2014 20:10:11 GMT -6
Thats an OG forum where nothing will get past them. I should post a positive review and pictures of my G Orange Fade Plaid shirt over there and watch the hilarity ensue. |
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Oct 21, 2014 15:23:40 GMT -6
It was deleted because it was a duplicate thread |
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Post by Derek G on Oct 21, 2014 18:07:56 GMT -6
I consider myself a noob still when it comes to selvedge/raw denim. ( 6 pair, 1 year experience). What I don't get, is why the experienced people seem to auto poo poo any denim company that starts on KS...(Don't get me wrong, I've seen some that I wouldn't back). I mean, everyone has to start somewhere...what's the difference if you begin your Co. on KS, or just start making jeans and selling them locally and grow from there by word of mouth/advertising?
Even in my complete lack of knowledge in all things selvedge...I could tell there was something different about Gustin and Lawless, above the others I had seen.
What if Roman turns out to be the next Christophe (Mr. Freedom)? They would be missing out because of their pre/mis conceptions.
Come to think of it...Doesn't Mr. Feedom sound just like the made in 'merica BS they always complain about? Even the names of some of his products ie: "Uncle Sam" collection, they even make a "liberty" belt. They use phrases like, Part of our 'Made in USA' efforts. I see the Grand old Flag, and other references to american made on the the site.
Can anyone in the know, explain to me how Mr. Freedom can get away with this, and still have the respect of the seasoned denim heads...yet let a KS jean Co. do it and...auto poo poo... I'm sorry for the long post brothers...but I can't seem to wrap my head around this whole thing. Not even giving Gustin and Lawless a chance.
Seems hypocritical and very unfair. I hope that Roman IS the next hot trend in denim...just so unnamed can go back to SUFU and say..."told ya" and rub their noses in it.
After thoughts: I once read somewhere...and I'm really starting to believe... these folks are just angry because they spent a small fortune on their denim wardrobe..and here we are getting the same..maybe in some cases, better quality denim for a hell of a lot less money. The more I learn about this passion...the more i see those folks as nothing more than a bunch of hypocrites.
Super smart denim gurus indeed....more like super ignorant denim snobs
Again...I AM a noob..am i missing something? Could I be the ignorant one?
If only one person there would have said.."I don't care for the jeans, but what a great review" I might feel differently
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Post by ickes on Oct 21, 2014 19:07:27 GMT -6
derek G; couldn't have said it better, totally agree. A lot of these guys know that they are completely getting shafted by the higher end denim lines with their insanely ridiculous mark ups. To justify the fact that they are over paying for their expensive products they bash the more affordable options in any way they can. I hardly consider them denim gurus. If anything it's more foolish to overpay and fall victim to huge mark ups.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 19:39:59 GMT -6
Most people would rather argue facts that they know to be true, rather than admit that they are/were foolish. Admitting the latter forces you to change and restructure thinking, ideals and behaviours and most people simply are no willing to do so.
I look at IH and know that we possibly they could be the best built jeans I might ever own, but paying quadruple or quintuple the price is not worth it to me. My Gustin's (And so to be my LD's) are for superior to the jeans I wore for the first 27yrs of my life, and for now I'm content knowing that.
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Post by highlights on Oct 21, 2014 20:19:00 GMT -6
I can dig brahs sayin' that some hi-qual. denim/workwear IS available at far more affordable prices than elite brands' prices. Certainly, brands like G & Lawless produce jeans that are a MASSIVE improve on what ANYONE - well, 99.9%, including the cognoscenti, the illuminati & even the Milanese!!!  - was wearing even 10-12 years ago. What I find disheartening & distasteful is that some dudes, who can both afford & appreciate the top-end stuff, find it necessary to bolster their own good fortune by slagging out/paying out "lesser" brands etc. Human inadequacies are more difficult to address/rectify than those found in a pair of jeans etc...IMO, those guys are the ones missin' the movie - I mean, if even workwear can't/doesn't retain some egalitarian values/roots...damn, is there only to be room for elites in C21? lol! Personally, I hope that more & more of the brahs do an occasional raid at rakuten & get a few pieces of IH or whatever at more affordable prices. Gotta say it: I've been less particular re. workshirts (they have diverse origins/country of manufacture) but, though I get tempted, I WANT all my JEANS, for the denim duration, to be US MADE!! (hey...& I ain't knockin' Japanese jeans etc either! but scored my last pair 2 years ago). |
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Oct 22, 2014 11:25:33 GMT -6
I know some of the guys over there and they are great people; don’t let the vocal minority of SUFU trolls turn you off the entire community. Many of the Japanese brands are well worth the price as are Gustin and Lawless jeans. I’m sure that there were many people who thought it was interesting but didn't want to say anything and get down voted… I know I didn't feel comfortable saying anything else after the trolls came around. Anyway, this thread is no longer relevant and probably should just be deleted… If you look close enough the conversation continues in another thread on there. I had made a large post before it was deleted in which people responded to that somewhere else |
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Oct 22, 2014 14:43:24 GMT -6
Its totally fine. Mega who i respect & like a lot said exactly what needed to be said without sounding like a fan or someone who is just hating blindly. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 15:29:46 GMT -6
LD needs to earn the street cred. Just too few product reviews out there.
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Post by Derek G on Oct 22, 2014 17:13:33 GMT -6
I know some of the guys over there and they are great people; don’t let the vocal minority of SUFU trolls turn you off the entire community. Many of the Japanese brands are well worth the price as are Gustin and Lawless jeans. I’m sure that there were many people who thought it was interesting but didn't want to say anything and get down voted… I know I didn't feel comfortable saying anything else after the trolls came around. Anyway, this thread is no longer relevant and probably should just be deleted… Then I admit to some ignorancy....your right unnamed, I was wrong in throwing them all into the same pot so to speak... I apologize for that...I guess I was venting, because I felt like they unfairly attacked one of my brahs sorry to the decent folks over there at SUFU no hard feelings huh? |
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Oct 22, 2014 17:18:58 GMT -6
LD needs to earn the street cred. Just too few product reviews out there. Depends on if they even want that kind of cred. I think Lawlesss should make their own mold & not want to be the type of brand denim heads love or hate. Yes they will be making what a denim head likes but I think it will be more than just that type of customer, which by the way is a tiny portion of the denim pie. Look at Naked & Famous & how successful they are. I mean they did something during a time where the denim community was a lot more private & tougher to get any respect. They were ripped apart for construction issues, for being a joke by putting out gimmicky jeans & now they likely outsell anyone. They decided to take a few things from the denim way of things & added a business model to it that makes money by going mainstream. The denim die hard would never want his stuff sold in a dept store similar to a rapper wanting his stuff on some pop channel. So credit is good but wear do you want that credit from? Of course I dont know what Lawless has in mind but I like it and that's all that counts I am not comparing LD to N&F either but just to show money talks A well known denim SUPER STAR recently said this to me in an email that is very fitting (NOT ROMAN) : Diehards will always be diehards. Complainers will always be complainers. Elitist will always be elitist. Sheep will always be sheep. The approach to anything is to share & communicate with earnestness, and the people that respond to that and vote with their dollars should be honored and rewarded. When one tries to satisfy a group outside of their constituency, it's counter-intuitive.
"There's an ass for every seat" ~ PT Barnum |
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Post by Ambassador on Nov 4, 2014 12:24:41 GMT -6
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Post by wisdom on Nov 4, 2014 12:31:26 GMT -6
Looks like it's getting realistic responses and is a huge opportunity for Lawless to revamp their image. People are willing to give it a chance, but have a healthy dose of skepticism mixed in with their hope. |
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Post by jbreitenbucher on Dec 7, 2014 7:59:04 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2014 8:43:11 GMT -6
LD needs more customer reviews to get on those sites. Those sites cannot recommend or talk about LD without more data. |
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Post by gaseousclay on Dec 7, 2014 8:48:32 GMT -6
As DD said in his post, haters are gonna hate no matter what you do, and trying to appeal to haters is pointless. If I had to guess I'd say people over at SUperfuture and Rawrdenim are making superficial judgements of the LD brand based on aesthetics. They probably see pics of the biker guy or the style of some of LD's garments and instantly turn their noses up at them. My response to places like super future is they can take a flying f!@k at a rolling donut. Nobody cares what they think |
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Post by jockohomo on Dec 7, 2014 9:16:30 GMT -6
If you can stand back and look at this issue objectively I think you would find some appreciation for why these respected outlets may be a little circumspect when it comes to Lawless Denim Company. While many discount what has been said about LD on Yelp there are some pretty serious charges being levied against Lawless and its employees and owner. In addition, the Better Business Bureau (yes, I took the advice of another poster and looked it up) giving Lawless Denim & Co an "F" rating is a little unsettling.
I do agree that a consistent delivery of products along with good reviews will go a long way to repairing and building Lawless Denim Co's reputation. From my perspective, I am good on jeans, but have some interest in LD shirts, however, I am not willing to risk it at this point. |
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Post by jamesr on Dec 7, 2014 9:28:51 GMT -6
I agree that Lawless has to start getting their stuff out there. I don't say this as an attack, but Lawless continues to look really good without having a lot out there on the street to prove it.
I can remember when rawrdenim was extremely dismissive of Gustin. But they seem to have come around, at least a bit (and rightfully so).
I have a couple of things on order from Lawless and am definitely rooting for Roman and crew, the same way as I am happy for Gustin's success.
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Post by Old26 on Dec 7, 2014 10:39:50 GMT -6
If you can stand back and look at this issue objectively I think you would find some appreciation for why these respected outlets may be a little circumspect when it comes to Lawless Denim Company. While many discount what has been said about LD on Yelp there are some pretty serious charges being levied against Lawless and its employees and owner. In addition, the Better Business Bureau (yes, I took the advice of another poster and looked it up) giving Lawless Denim & Co an "F" rating is a little unsettling.
I do agree that a consistent delivery of products along with good reviews will go a long way to repairing and building Lawless Denim Co's reputation. From my perspective, I am good on jeans, but have some interest in LD shirts, however, I am not willing to risk it at this point. That's fine. However, if one has no experience with a vendor, it would be best to leave commentary on that vendor to those who have experience with them. We've given all the startups some slack for issues - I can't imagine what goes on when doing such a thing, but it's surely not easy and has many hiccups. We won't stop people from posting legitimate posts that give first-hand feedback, but we won't let other's experiences drag on in threads when they are third-party, and at best, hearsay. The internet is a fun but questionable place to get solid information, so we would like for the commentary here to be based on what members have experienced, not what someone read somewhere else, if possible. All it takes is one pissed off client or a competitor to sour a forum with stories about bad service/product. Hope that's clear and I hope people can appreciate what we're trying to do here... |
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Post by brentkuz on Dec 7, 2014 11:02:11 GMT -6
BBB is a joke. I could go on for a while about them but I won't. Complete joke.
Still waiting on my first LD order. Should be fun!
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- was wearing even 10-12 years ago. What I find disheartening & distasteful is that some dudes, who can both afford & appreciate the top-end stuff, find it necessary to bolster their own good fortune by slagging out/paying out "lesser" brands etc. Human inadequacies are more difficult to address/rectify than those found in a pair of jeans etc...IMO, those guys are the ones missin' the movie - I mean, if even workwear can't/doesn't retain some egalitarian values/roots...damn, is there only to be room for elites in C21? lol!
