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Post by kkozel on May 11, 2017 9:29:20 GMT -6
Not disagreeing here, just relaying their argument to me. Really came down to these points for them, which I don't know enough to know if its smokescreen or not. 1) Worker conditions in US aren't necessary great (which reminded me I did see this article - but didn't read - well-spent.com/factory-conditions-la-bad-abroad/)2) The chinese factory produces less waste than the US once doing the same thing. Had the patagonia cite too Agree that if 3Sixteen or Rogue Territory went to China there'd be some heavy backlash - but I do think the comparison isn't totally fair. TS produces much more volume, which I think allows them to go to other factories (totally guessing?) and at a much lower price point. Another thing I dont know - is will this be the trend for them, or is it a one time thing? All I do know, is I think they underestimated their customer's base opinion on the whole thing. In summary, who knows what their motivation really is, maybe its what they claim or maybe its what the assumption of Chinese manufacturing brings. I'm not arguing either stance, cause I just don't now...just being a messenger. my comment was just a response to TS's explanation, not at you. My question though, who performs the audit at the Chinese factory? Who does the factory in China employ? Poor workers from rural communities? Children? Beyond the meals, housing and clothing, what sort of wages do their workers make? These questions are important to me. To me it highlights whether or not a factory is exploiting their workers. We have OSHA & the Dept of Labor here in the US which provides protections for workers. I'm guessing that Chinese workers are not provided with these same protections. Yes, comparing TS to 3sixteen or RgT might not be totally fair. I was just using them as examples because they're US made and that this is part of the reason people support them. I just know that if any of the premium brands we follow and pay good money for turned around and shifted manufacturing overseas they'd lose customers fast, this includes made in Japan brands. Yeah not sure on the audits they cite they use Patagonia's audits, but who'd they hire, etc...who knows. Blind faith for us i guess.
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Post by kkozel on May 11, 2017 8:40:52 GMT -6
Yep, was excited about the upcoming MiUSA selvedge chambray Western, but may just be done with TS. They're honest, and that's cool. But their honesty means I'll look to the alternatives. I'm not sure I disagree with you, right now I'm saying I'll be a decision when they drop. It all still rubs me the wrong way, and not sure I really know how to explain it.
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Post by kkozel on May 11, 2017 8:38:17 GMT -6
I actually emailed the founders distro about this, they were pretty honest about their response (very similar to what northcoast put up) I can't say I agree with it, but its what they stance it. My point with them, at least the one I tried to convey, is similar to what someone said on styleforum - its their company and how they operate is their decision, just like how consumers choose to support them. But for me, always appreciated the transparency TS provided...not saying this is a bait and switch, but just feels like they are holding the China story back. They said they plan on talking about the china factory more, no idea when thats happening. that's great that they've chosen to be transparent about it but my opinion is that in doing so they've alienated a lot of customers. I know I sound like a broken record when I say this but to me it's almost like a betrayal. I know they've grown and there's a good likelihood that there simply aren't any US manufacturers that can keep up with demand, but imagine what it would sound like if a company like Rogue Territory, 3sixteen or any other US based company turned around and started making their stuff abroad. The backlash would be tremendous. I realize that US made doesn't always equate to quality but for many it's a source of pride knowing that your clothing was produced here. This is why a lot of us choose to pay more for our clothing versus buying cheaper alternatives. If I want an inexpensive shirt or whatever i'll go to J.Crew with their perpetual sales. The Chinese factory explanation sounds like a smokescreen to justify their decision. Not disagreeing here, just relaying their argument to me. Really came down to these points for them, which I don't know enough to know if its smokescreen or not. 1) Worker conditions in US aren't necessary great (which reminded me I did see this article - but didn't read - well-spent.com/factory-conditions-la-bad-abroad/)2) The chinese factory produces less waste than the US once doing the same thing. Had the patagonia cite too Agree that if 3Sixteen or Rogue Territory went to China there'd be some heavy backlash - but I do think the comparison isn't totally fair. TS produces much more volume, which I think allows them to go to other factories (totally guessing?) and at a much lower price point. Another thing I dont know - is will this be the trend for them, or is it a one time thing? All I do know, is I think they underestimated their customer's base opinion on the whole thing. In summary, who knows what their motivation really is, maybe its what they claim or maybe its what the assumption of Chinese manufacturing brings. I'm not arguing either stance, cause I just don't now...just being a messenger. *edited to hammer my biggest meh* I'm being too kind with the transparency thing - only cause I don't like the stance of "we'll talk about it when asked" wish they were pro-active. Hell I didn't even notice it til commented here. But can't deny respecting they replied to me
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Post by kkozel on May 11, 2017 7:33:10 GMT -6
toolonginexile - I'm guessing the classic cut is going away - they put all of it on sale, and all I see are restocks in the standard/slim cuts...standard was a much to tight in the top for me. going one tone today - working on breaking in things/getting more fades going. Got some natural light for this one. Noble Denim Indigo Canvas jeans IHSH-129 3sixteen shadow trucker
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Post by kkozel on May 11, 2017 7:28:18 GMT -6
I actually emailed the founders distro about this, they were pretty honest about their response (very similar to what northcoast put up) I can't say I agree with it, but its what they stance it. My point with them, at least the one I tried to convey, is similar to what someone said on styleforum - its their company and how they operate is their decision, just like how consumers choose to support them. But for me, always appreciated the transparency TS provided...not saying this is a bait and switch, but just feels like they are holding the China story back. They said they plan on talking about the china factory more, no idea when thats happening.
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Post by kkozel on May 9, 2017 15:33:53 GMT -6
The warmer the shorter @untucked , but have been noted to still go short in the heart of winter. at bentin 's request I'll try to get involved. TS Sundown shirt Shockoe's discontinued classic kojima (least i think they stopped making this cut)
*edit* should maybe make the bed next time
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Post by kkozel on May 9, 2017 7:27:32 GMT -6
I'm in the minority here, I like shorts, and sometimes I like shorter shorts. disheveled - looks good, so do your IH forum 633 OD pics, hoping that doesn't make me think i need the 14oz ODs when those come.
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Post by kkozel on May 9, 2017 7:25:09 GMT -6
Anybody end up picking up the caustic waves? And ickes' 633 comments are spot on - its a pretty solid cut for those who want some taper with bigger top.
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Post by kkozel on May 5, 2017 17:50:53 GMT -6
ickes - going back to my tanuki comment (all while trying to not derail this thread) its all hard - I like my thighs a bit larger, but as the fabric lightens up, feels like I can get away with more taper/tighter. Posted some fit pics in tanuki vs the IH-633II which is easily my favorite pair of denim. I always think the top block is way too tight (maybe it is?) but I think so much of that is dependent on that fabric being a beast. With that said, with all the denim i've bought/sold over the past few years, recall 1x my wife said "woah those look good on you" and they're a snugger cut the the IH. Sugar Cane/SE summer weight denim - recommend that one too.
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Post by kkozel on May 5, 2017 17:49:18 GMT -6
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WAYWT
May 5, 2017 17:41:58 GMT -6
Post by kkozel on May 5, 2017 17:41:58 GMT -6
dishevled buys his favorite a IH shirt?
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Post by kkozel on May 5, 2017 13:25:32 GMT -6
I think Oni might have a cut for me actually. I loved my 517xxBE before I squatted and deadlifted my way out of them and I am refusing to put them up for sale. One day I'll let them go I'm sure. Oni kind of confuses me though as it seems like they change the numbers on their cuts every week. Strike Golds...no chance like bentin said. Ickes - the tanuki maybe...I'm in a similar boat, onis are sold, im holding on to my 633II - but those could be next to go.
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Post by kkozel on May 4, 2017 9:56:57 GMT -6
Agreed. Small craftsmen are having an impact. I also like the guy at One Star Leather. Nice belts for the money. There are lots of small, quality purveyors, but I think what we're lacking is the large capacity sew shops that used to be prevelant. Much like an article I saw yesterday about a shortage of auto mechanics, this seems like the real hurdle of bringing jobs back to America. We're all a bunch of over educated service industry folks now, not skilled physical laborers. Like Carroll Shelby resorting to building his last cars in a NV prison, maybe we just need to look at all of our available labor pools. Who's pay extra for a shirt sewn by OJ? I'd also like to point out that I categorically avoid Gustin's MiUSA shirts because they're poorly cut and poorly made. So that's not a win for MiUSA. TS probably suffers from more returns when they try to source US sewers to make a patterned shirt. RgT is currently peddling a $255 shirt that is lacking gussets and has suspect alignment. I don't fault TS for using Portugal for patterned shirts, but I'm still annoyed that they don't leave their solid shirts and those named California in the hands of American sewers. And there's just no excuse for China. If you can't strike a deal with Westcomb, RAB or Mission, just don't make the jacket. Really agree with this sentiment, especially from TS. Why I started with them was the MiUSA, and I like their style ducks. I really missed that it was Made in China - mainly cause I didn't even open that product page for that jacket. I mean that Albion is Made in California - swear all their other jackets are at least outside china.
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WAYWT
May 4, 2017 9:51:24 GMT -6
Post by kkozel on May 4, 2017 9:51:24 GMT -6
I really like that IH-6526J It's my favorite jacket! I was lucky enough to buy it off of someone on the IH forum I'm always a day (or a month) late trying to pick one up off there.
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WAYWT
May 4, 2017 7:09:13 GMT -6
Post by kkozel on May 4, 2017 7:09:13 GMT -6
I really like that IH-6526J
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Post by kkozel on May 1, 2017 14:03:14 GMT -6
Couple of pics, not the best. tried to set them up next to my other natural indigo pair (633N)
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Post by kkozel on Apr 27, 2017 9:35:42 GMT -6
I got these NR1s, they are pretty dang cool. Didn't get as much shrink on hem as I hoped, but still a really great fabric. Pics if you find the time. How much shrink did you get? Will get some when I can - try to get them in natural light too. Dark and lots of texture easiest way to describe them, and really loose weave (in my opinion) I didn't measure them before the soak - just tried on and decided how warm to soak...then dried them and went warmer. Might still give them a super hot wash and try to bring them down more.
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Tanuki
Apr 27, 2017 6:55:36 GMT -6
Post by kkozel on Apr 27, 2017 6:55:36 GMT -6
I got these NR1s, they are pretty dang cool. Didn't get as much shrink on hem as I hoped, but still a really great fabric.
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Post by kkozel on Apr 25, 2017 6:37:11 GMT -6
Few things in the latest survey that I really liked. Mostly that chambray with the black snaps, and the cord shirt.
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Tanuki
Apr 20, 2017 11:12:04 GMT -6
Post by kkozel on Apr 20, 2017 11:12:04 GMT -6
Yeah i know - total opposite, oh well. They're still on my list. Even with other natural indigo pairs. I guess I'm a sucker. Convinced myself they were slightly more irregular than the retros, so went with them cause of that. Not sure thats right though.
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Tanuki
Apr 20, 2017 10:59:35 GMT -6
Post by kkozel on Apr 20, 2017 10:59:35 GMT -6
The IDT1 return went fine, after talking it over at denimo decided it was a stretch to go up to 34s, just too small in calves/thighs. So moved up to the NR1 - went with them over retro's, mostly for the natural indigo. Brace yourself for extremely slow fades. Yeah i know - total opposite, oh well.
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Tanuki
Apr 20, 2017 10:06:02 GMT -6
Post by kkozel on Apr 20, 2017 10:06:02 GMT -6
The IDT1 return went fine, after talking it over at denimo decided it was a stretch to go up to 34s, just too small in calves/thighs. So moved up to the NR1 - went with them over retro's, mostly for the natural indigo.
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Post by kkozel on Apr 12, 2017 11:32:26 GMT -6
nate001 I have this too - its great.
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Tanuki
Apr 11, 2017 9:13:08 GMT -6
Post by kkozel on Apr 11, 2017 9:13:08 GMT -6
Agree, Tanuki's two fits hit both sides of my wants. One's too loose, one's too skinny. Pity, materials look great. It was comical - out of the bag i was like "okay this will be a small hem, but no worries..." then i put one leg in and realized the mid-thigh wasn't getting past my lower thigh. So maybe the low-rise was exaggerated. Denimo said they'd help me find a bigger hem/knee/lower thigh, on a size up, but who knows. I keep telling myself the regular will work, and im okay with that hem size (feels kinda 633ish)
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Tanuki
Apr 11, 2017 7:26:54 GMT -6
Post by kkozel on Apr 11, 2017 7:26:54 GMT -6
Got my idt1's and they are definitely amazing. Definitely a lower rise than most of my denim, but not too low, and the fabric is a very slubby pleasure. Definitely keeping an eye on this brand as the cut is just perfect for me off the rack, something that I haven't quite found with other brands without having to have something tapered or hemmed. I went for these too - the top block was great but taper just too much for me (knew it was a stretch though) turned from lower rise/solid top block to skinny after mid thigh on me. Awesome fabric though. Back out to denimo so we'll see how the return goes, hoping we can size up and find a bigger hem/knee combo, else I might go bigger after the naturals...those look really nice (and have some solid feedback from Matt)
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