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Post by brentkuz on Jan 7, 2015 20:24:01 GMT -6
Am I reading the website correctly? All indigo denim is dyed with natural indigo? Wow since Gustin and others charge a premium for natural denim.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2015 20:58:53 GMT -6
their prices for the denim is fairly similar to G's. didn't do a direct 1:1 on each, but would be the 'cone peach id' and 'okayama standard' equivalents are priced pretty similarly
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Post by exophobe on Jan 7, 2015 22:25:47 GMT -6
I had mentioned something about natural indigo dye to Roman at Lawless a couple months back, and he said that they were into entertaining natural indigo (when they get to the point where they start making fabric), but stated that natural indigo fades with a greenish tint where the other options give you that really nice blue as the garment ages. At least, that's how I interpreted it.
I'd be really surprised to find out they're using naturally derived indigo for all of the fabric, especially since Ciano sources a lot of the same fabrics that make no claims on either Gustin or Lawless.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2015 6:06:24 GMT -6
I seen that back on their kickstarter. If you check out how "indigo" and "organic" are in quotes, I think that signifies that it must be called out as such.
here is an example description from kickstarter.
"ORGANIC" JAPANESE KUROKI MILLS 12oz INDIGO "INDIGO" SELVAGE DENIM
see the quotes? That is the only explanation since they do use the same fabric because they have what i am pretty sure is the Okayama Standard from G. And god knows that G. would charge more for "natural indigo" for the Okayamas. So I would assume that is the logic with the "natural" and "organic", but it will mislead a brah. But hey, I might be wrong. It has been known to happen...a lot.
Also, Lord Gustin charges as he pleases. They were adamant that the price increases were only based on cost of denim. Super Heavies went up over $20 since release. Lawless produces an 18.5 ounce that I hear is very similar to the super heavy 18 ounce and they did it at like $40 with their 50% off sale. See what I am getting at here? Price of material went up $20? It had to have cost $20 to begin with or something. Lawless making these jawns for free? Also, Lawless and Ciano keep a lot of their denims the same price. Their (ciano) hemps were waaaaaaaaaaay below L.G.'s prices. I am cool with price increases and supply/demand etc etc, but maaaaaan, why you gotta say it is material alone? It was fun to read the early fanboys parroting "hey, the price of materials went up!" before L.G. could respond with, "oh yeah, price of materials went up." They are a business...they aren't your buddies. I would say "business partners" but it doesn't even feel that close. I think Frisco livin' is a factor in the pricing and how these others can as much or more for less. Although I had issues with my Cianos, they have a lot of little features here and there that I dig...well...even more if they would have had the hidden rivets.
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Post by brentkuz on Jan 8, 2015 9:18:29 GMT -6
After reading the site more they can't use solely natural indigo on all the denim.
Gustin natural indigo's are higher than a standard pair.
I will say my PRPS jeans are natural indigo.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2015 10:02:34 GMT -6
concur...it would be cool if they did, though.
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Post by davelewis on Jan 8, 2015 10:32:15 GMT -6
After reading the site more they can't use solely natural indigo on all the denim. Gustin natural indigo's are higher than a standard pair. I will say my PRPS jeans are natural indigo. I had thought it was cool that they use only natural dyed denim for their jeans, but when looking at the variety of jeans offered, I couldn't imagine that all were so, but if you look at the web page today, it states "we do not use synthetic dyes in any of our denim fabrics" |
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Post by brentkuz on Jan 8, 2015 11:58:17 GMT -6
Yeah if is a bit misleading. Unless it's not the same fabric we thought it was.
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Post by davelewis on Jan 8, 2015 12:47:03 GMT -6
Yeah if is a bit misleading. Unless it's not the same fabric we thought it was. The only other explaination is that natural dyes are more commonly used, and that Gustin makes a big deal out of it so they can upcharge making you think its very different from the usual fray. I can say for me that I really don't care one way or the other, but for some it makes more of a difference. I care more in how they fit, rather than specific dye. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2015 21:44:48 GMT -6
I think it's a tricky topic. I don't think "natural" indigo always means "made from the indigofera plant" Kind of like "Hansens all natural soda", look at the ingredients, plenty of chemicals in there, albeit "natural" ones. I think natural is a junk term which is what @rex was getting at. Also, you could theoretically make "organic" indigo dyes without using the indigofera plant, just use other blue organic pigments. Do they mean the color indigo or the actual plant? Who knows. I think you've asked a great question davelewis and it sort of gets into how vague the wording in the denim world can be. I will say this, some of the Japanese companies sell or have sold jeans made from hand dipped, plant based indigo dyed yarn for 600-800 bucks a copy (google "Awa Shoai"). I think Naked and Famous just announced jeans of this type and while cheaper than the Japanese jeans they are very expensive for Naked and Famous jeans. Personally, I've always wondered what G's "natural" indigo means, and I wonder if G even know themselves. I sure don't. Not slighting the jeans at all, just interesting that the word could be used by a fabric maker, adopted by the jeans maker and then by the end customer and nobody really knows what it means. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2015 22:42:39 GMT -6
I think it's a tricky topic. I don't think "natural" indigo always means "made from the indigofera plant" Kind of like "Hansens all natural soda", look at the ingredients, plenty of chemicals in there, albeit "natural" ones. I think natural is a junk term which is what @rex was getting at. Also, you could theoretically make "organic" indigo dyes without using the indigofera plant, just use other blue organic pigments. Do they mean the color indigo or the actual plant? Who knows. I think you've asked a great question davelewis and it sort of gets into how vague the wording in the denim world can be. I will say this, some of the Japanese companies sell or have sold jeans made from hand dipped, plant based indigo dyed yarn for 600-800 bucks a copy (google "Awa Shoai"). I think Naked and Famous just announced jeans of this type and while cheaper than the Japanese jeans they are very expensive for Naked and Famous jeans. Personally, I've always wondered what G's "natural" indigo means, and I wonder if G even know themselves. I sure don't. Not slighting the jeans at all, just interesting that the word could be used by a fabric maker, adopted by the jeans maker and then by the end customer and nobody really knows what it means. I have the G's natural indigo jeans and after wearing on and off for more than one year, I still don't know what is the big deal about the dye. It was pretty expensive ($140?) and frankly, it looks, feels and fade like a regular indigo jeans. Not money well spent... at least to me. |
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Post by oatwilly on Jan 10, 2015 21:16:55 GMT -6
I was confused about that also, so I asked and was told yes, all their fabrics were all natural organic dye indigo, but didn't trust that answer so I asked again later and was told by a different person that only the fabrics with "organic" stated on the image are organic. The rest are the usual regular dye
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Post by marauder on Jan 10, 2015 22:47:18 GMT -6
So does labelling a fabric organic mean that the cotton is organic, or/and the indigofera plant dye is used which was grown organically without any pesticides, herbicides or chemical fertilizers? Or another blue dye was used that contains organic ingredients?
On top of that each government / organic certifying agency has it's own definition of organic. This takes us into fuzzy territory.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2015 2:22:01 GMT -6
This takes us into fuzzy territory. That's what she said! |
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Post by usctroll on Jan 11, 2015 21:13:13 GMT -6
Not sure, but when I see natural I pretty much ignore it. Organic is something I consider with certain meat/produce products but cotton is a stretch for me.
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Post by Mattbert on Jan 12, 2015 7:49:49 GMT -6
This takes us into fuzzy territory. That's what she said! Liking this post yourself is what takes it to the next level. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2015 9:33:44 GMT -6
Agreed Mattbert, I want to like @rex 's post but I feel it would disturb the awesomeness of the whole thing. |
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Post by Mattbert on Jan 12, 2015 10:59:02 GMT -6
Agreed Mattbert, I want to like @rex 's post but I feel it would disturb the awesomeness of the whole thing. You're right. I will like this one instead. |
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