|
|
Post by exophobe on Nov 11, 2014 15:36:31 GMT -6
Also, I would send an email to their support team about the coupon. I clarified through online chat that it was open to everybody (thanks @laura), so it's possible they'll work something out with you. Yeah.. my original post sounded too much like sour grapes, so I edited it out. I'm not bitter about it.. I'll eMail Lawless, but am cool with whatever they decide.. as flexible and accommodating as they've been with me I don't mind one bit. it's down the memory hole. |
|
|
|
Post by exophobe on Nov 11, 2014 15:50:41 GMT -6
Now if Porsche was really basing the Macan on an Audi Q3 I would be pissed, but everyone (at least anyone that cares to do a little research) knows it is based on the Audi Q5.
My mistake. Sorry. |
|
|
|
Post by exophobe on Nov 11, 2014 16:34:59 GMT -6
We just can't seem to keep the Lawless out of the Gustin. I think I have a problem with this as a product of my using this forum exclusively through the recent posts feed, except when I have something new to say about some thread that hasn't been updated in a while.
looks like the Italian Recycle is wrapping up over there if any of you were on the fence about it. I'm really curious how the Shine is gonna line up against the silk they put up today, and despite the workshirt hurt around here, the American pinstripe looks nice, but as it's non-selvedge I'm not really thinking I need to get after it having the Japan HS1 at home. I do like the gusset detail on it, though, and wish they'd gone with that sort of idea on the CPO gussets. As I've said, I've wanted those Japan Military Green since I missed the first run, so it's hurting a little bit to be on the fence over it.
Those of you with chore coats coming, I've found that mine is great under a wool overcoat when the temps dip below freezing, and the high-cut Gustin arm-holes allow it to fit nicely into a fuller-cut winter coat.
|
|
|
|
Post by jamesr on Nov 11, 2014 17:14:10 GMT -6
It's really starting to bother me that GUSTIN does not disclose the mill the fabrics are sourced from. I know they have adressed the issue before and given an explanation but I'm not sure I completely buy it. Every other ccompany I can think of tells you what mill the fabric is sourced from. What would you rather have, multiple close-up views of the fabric along with sewn up garment photos from multiple angles or disclosure of the Japanese mill where the fabric is supposedly produced?
In full disclosure I have not been unhappy with any of the jean fabrics I have bought from Gustin and don't know how knowing where they were milled would make me any happier.
Now if Porsche was really basing the Macan on an Audi Q3 I would be pissed, but everyone (at least anyone that cares to do a little research) knows it is based on the Audi Q5.
It's a transparency thing for me. Gustin regularly uses this statement in their copy: "selvedge denim from one of the finest mills in Japan". Every time I read it I stop and think, "Really? Which one?" |
|
|
|
Post by jockohomo on Nov 11, 2014 17:38:16 GMT -6
What would you rather have, multiple close-up views of the fabric along with sewn up garment photos from multiple angles or disclosure of the Japanese mill where the fabric is supposedly produced?
In full disclosure I have not been unhappy with any of the jean fabrics I have bought from Gustin and don't know how knowing where they were milled would make me any happier.
Now if Porsche was really basing the Macan on an Audi Q3 I would be pissed, but everyone (at least anyone that cares to do a little research) knows it is based on the Audi Q5.
It's a transparency thing for me. Gustin regularly uses this statement in their copy: "selvedge denim from one of the finest mills in Japan". Every time I read it I stop and think, "Really? Which one?" I am not that familiar with the various Japanese mills so I can't say knowing which one produces the denim in a pair of Gustin jeans would influence my buying decision. However, I am always looking to improve my knowledge of selvedge denim so I defer to you to summarize the attributes you are familiar with as they pertain to the various Japanese textile mills. I am all ears. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 17:39:42 GMT -6
It's a transparency thing for me. Gustin regularly uses this statement in their copy: "selvedge denim from one of the finest mills in Japan". Every time I read it I stop and think, "Really? Which one?" I am not that familiar with the various Japanese mills so I can't say knowing which one produces the denim in a pair of Gustin jeans would influence my buying decision. However, I am always looking to improve my knowledge of selvedge denim so I defer to you to summarize the attributes you are familiar with as they pertain to the various Japanese textile mills. I am all ears. Google is your friend. Just look the mills up. Not difficult. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 17:40:50 GMT -6
We just can't seem to keep the Lawless out of the Gustin. I think I have a problem with this as a product of my using this forum exclusively through the recent posts feed, except when I have something new to say about some thread that hasn't been updated in a while. looks like the Italian Recycle is wrapping up over there if any of you were on the fence about it. I'm really curious how the Shine is gonna line up against the silk they put up today, and despite the workshirt hurt around here, the American pinstripe looks nice, but as it's non-selvedge I'm not really thinking I need to get after it having the Japan HS1 at home. I do like the gusset detail on it, though, and wish they'd gone with that sort of idea on the CPO gussets. As I've said, I've wanted those Japan Military Green since I missed the first run, so it's hurting a little bit to be on the fence over it. Those of you with chore coats coming, I've found that mine is great under a wool overcoat when the temps dip below freezing, and the high-cut Gustin arm-holes allow it to fit nicely into a fuller-cut winter coat. Until Gustin comes up with some new product, I don't think people really has anything new to add. There are so many comments that people can be made to very similar things. |
|
|
|
Post by jockohomo on Nov 11, 2014 17:44:11 GMT -6
I am not that familiar with the various Japanese mills so I can't say knowing which one produces the denim in a pair of Gustin jeans would influence my buying decision. However, I am always looking to improve my knowledge of selvedge denim so I defer to you to summarize the attributes you are familiar with as they pertain to the various Japanese textile mills. I am all ears. Google is your friend. Just look the mills up. Not difficult. I have done that. Nothing I have read leads me to favor one over the other. You seem to have a preference, why? |
|
|
|
Post by ickes on Nov 11, 2014 18:11:11 GMT -6
jockohomo; I prefer to have the mill that the fabric was sourced from disclosed because that will tell me that I am indeed buying a product that is made by a high quality manufacturer. Certain mills may use different procedures during the manufacturing process that may be unique to that mill as well. This results in certain unique characteristics of the denim produced by that mill, such as Kaihara's in house rope dyeing technique. If I am getting such a bargain, as Gustin states I am, then I would really like to KNOW that I am getting the bargain they are claiming by knowing the source of the fabric. This gives me confidence as a consumer that I indeed am buying a quality material and am getting a good deal. Just because a fabric is made in a Japanese or Italian mill does not mean that it is necessarily desirable or of high quality. The fact that Gustin does not disclose the mills for their Italian and Japanese denims gives the impression that it is possible that they are not from one of the top mills and therefore are not of the highest quality, which means I am not really getting such a great bargain. It's not a matter of knowing the source because I prefer Nihon Menpu over Kaihara, it's a matter of knowing the source because I want to know that I am indeed buying Nihon Menpu or Kaihara. Here's one quick link, very brief overview of a few mills; www.rawrdenim.com/2013/04/meet-your-maker-japanese-denim-mills/
|
|
|
|
Post by Derek G on Nov 11, 2014 18:11:45 GMT -6
Google is your friend. Just look the mills up. Not difficult. I have done that. Nothing I have read leads me to favor one over the other. You seem to have a preference, why? Hi brothers! here is a ( link ) to an informative article about the various Japanese mills. Speaking for myself, I'm partial to Kurabo, only because they are the oldest....and I believe that experience is paramount, but that's just me and how I think about things. Others may have the train of thought that older means outdated, and think that the newer mills mean new and exciting ideas. Just my noobish 2 cents  judge for your self ickes ...LOL we posted the same link  |
|
|
|
Post by wisdom on Nov 11, 2014 18:14:36 GMT -6
It's a transparency thing for me. Gustin regularly uses this statement in their copy: "selvedge denim from one of the finest mills in Japan". Every time I read it I stop and think, "Really? Which one?" I am not that familiar with the various Japanese mills so I can't say knowing which one produces the denim in a pair of Gustin jeans would influence my buying decision. However, I am always looking to improve my knowledge of selvedge denim so I defer to you to summarize the attributes you are familiar with as they pertain to the various Japanese textile mills. I am all ears. I kind of agree with jamesr in that I'd prefer the information from Gustin.. sure, it might not mean anything to people who just want a pair of nice jeans, but for someone who's trying to get a deeper understanding and appreciation for fabric and denim in particular, it's interesting. I think many of us can tell you the basic qualities of Italian vs. American vs. Japanese denim but I don't have enough from each particular Japanese mill to tell you the differences between them. There are many articles on places like rawrdenim that walk you through the history of various denim mills.. it's like knowing where your ingredients, spices, food, etc. comes from.. some people want to know these things on a more intimate level. |
|
|
|
Post by exophobe on Nov 11, 2014 18:34:17 GMT -6
jockohomo; I prefer to have the mill that the fabric was sourced from disclosed because that will tell me that I am indeed buying a product that is made by a high quality manufacturer. Certain mills may use different procedures during the manufacturing process that may be unique to that mill as well. This results in certain unique characteristics of the denim produced by that mill, such as Kaihara's in house rope dyeing technique. If I am getting such a bargain, as Gustin states I am, then I would really like to KNOW that I am getting the bargain they are claiming by knowing the source of the fabric. This gives me confidence as a consumer that I indeed am buying a quality material and am getting a good deal. Just because a fabric is made in a Japanese or Italian mill does not mean that it is necessarily desirable or of high quality. The fact that Gustin does not disclose the mills for their Italian and Japanese denims gives the impression that it is possible that they are not from one of the top mills and therefore are not of the highest quality, which means I am not really getting such a great bargain. It's not a matter of knowing the source because I prefer Nihon Menpu over Kaihara, it's a matter of knowing the source because I want to know that I am indeed buying Nihon Menpu or Kaihara. Here's one quick link, very brief overview of a few mills; www.rawrdenim.com/2013/04/meet-your-maker-japanese-denim-mills/ Unfortunately, I think it's as simple as this. Gustin doesnt' feel it's important to mention, and so they don't, and likely won't. This could be rooted in them doing business with smaller, newer mills the the Denim Bros wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. In those cases, it's still Japanese denim, but maybe something that would be considered a strike against by those "in the know". We know this is a very fickle group to dig into ($100+ denim) full of all sorts of mis-conceptions. The point is, they find quality denim (I think the problems with their silk are just general "how to care for silk" or "cotton vs. silk" issues more than necessarily problems or flaws with the fabric; cotton will shrink, but it's very resilient to many things, while silk is not) and fabric, so as long as it's not woven in China and called Japanese I have no real issue with their choice not to disclose it. Would I like it if they would? Yeah, I would, but I don't hold it against them since I love all the denim I've purchased from Gustin (except Cone Blue x Black and Pima Fire, but that's been discussed already -- and I know those are cone, though I couldn't say whether they're white oak or one of the others). Having a selvedge ID is the thing that identifies the part of the manufacture that I'm really into, though these lines are starting to grey as the trend gets bigger -- in other words, it's starting to be made in China, which I don't necessarily want to support any more than I have to for ethical reasons more than quality reasons. |
|
|
|
Post by highlights on Nov 11, 2014 19:44:27 GMT -6
Think it's possible that Gustin's secrecy is related to its reservations about its competitors knowing G's fabric sources. I've tried to overlook this but, ultimately, I'm in agreement w/ ickes & wisdom: brand progress/growth/responsibilty & consumer awareness/knowledge is dependent upon f.o.i. The denim industry conforms to the rest of life; wanna survive, grow? Education. More info = more evo (not devo).
|
|
|
|
Post by jockohomo on Nov 11, 2014 20:29:02 GMT -6
jockohomo; I prefer to have the mill that the fabric was sourced from disclosed because that will tell me that I am indeed buying a product that is made by a high quality manufacturer. Certain mills may use different procedures during the manufacturing process that may be unique to that mill as well. This results in certain unique characteristics of the denim produced by that mill, such as Kaihara's in house rope dyeing technique. If I am getting such a bargain, as Gustin states I am, then I would really like to KNOW that I am getting the bargain they are claiming by knowing the source of the fabric. This gives me confidence as a consumer that I indeed am buying a quality material and am getting a good deal. Just because a fabric is made in a Japanese or Italian mill does not mean that it is necessarily desirable or of high quality. The fact that Gustin does not disclose the mills for their Italian and Japanese denims gives the impression that it is possible that they are not from one of the top mills and therefore are not of the highest quality, which means I am not really getting such a great bargain. It's not a matter of knowing the source because I prefer Nihon Menpu over Kaihara, it's a matter of knowing the source because I want to know that I am indeed buying Nihon Menpu or Kaihara. Here's one quick link, very brief overview of a few mills; www.rawrdenim.com/2013/04/meet-your-maker-japanese-denim-mills/ As we all know in this day and age, it is wise to believe nothing you read and maybe half of what you see. The mere written word representing the origin of something is only valuable if you have the ability to authenticate that representation with your own senses, intelligence and mental faculties. As I said previously, I have no reason to doubt that Gustin sources their Japanese denim from reputable mills. While I only have 15 pairs of their jeans, I can not find fault with any of the fabric itself. I realize you have many more than I do and wonder what leads you to believe they are being less than honest with how they describe the source of their Japanese denim.
While I have not been able to definitively determine the number of selvedge denim mills in Japan, it seems that it might be unlikely that any fly-by-night outfit can just set up and start making true selvedge denim. This impression might be playing out right before our eyes?
I thank you for the link to the article, I have read it several times in the past few years. I will provide you with this one which I am sure you have also read.
www.denimhunters.com/2014/03/japanesedenim/
Kind of blows up a few myths, huh? Of course, maybe it is the Toyoda vs. Draper loom that we should really be focusing on?
|
|
|
|
Post by Derek G on Nov 11, 2014 20:57:32 GMT -6
I hadn't read this one...Touche' my friend...very informative I thank you for the link Learn something new everyday and see other sides of a story, I like it  EDIT And that is why I love this board and like to learn/hangout with you guys |
|
|
|
Post by ickes on Nov 11, 2014 22:41:05 GMT -6
jockohomo; maybe I didn't make my point clear enough with my last comment, but the article you just posted the link to is proving my point that I was trying to express earlier. Just because a denim is a Japanese or Italian denim it does not mean it is a high quality denim. Which is precisely why I think it would be beneficial for GUSTIN to disclose the source of their fabrics. I'm not saying that GUSTIN isn't sourcing their fabrics from Kuroki, Nihon Menpu, Kaihara, Candiani, etc..they very well could be. But the fact that they do not disclose that information makes me second guess the source and makes me a little uncertain of whether I am getting denim from "one of the finest mills in Japan". It's very contradictory to say you shouldnt believe everything you read and then in the same post say that you have no doubt that GUSTIN is sourcing their denims from the top mills because they say they are. This again proves the point I am making. It's obviously not a deal breaker to me, I have a good amount of GUSTIN jeans that I am very happy with, but it shows that the transparency isnt quite there with GUSTIN and brings up the question...why? If I was sourcing my denim from Kaihara, Nihon Menpu, etc...I would be screaming it from the mountain tops. It would be the first line in my product description; "Ickes denim made from the famous Nihon Menpu mill in Japan"...  Look, I could be completely wrong jockohomo, but I've enjoyed the discussion: )
|
|
|
|
Post by ickes on Nov 11, 2014 22:47:14 GMT -6
lol...btw, I totally just liked my own post, total accident I swear . I'm not that vain. |
|
|
|
Post by davelewis on Nov 11, 2014 22:50:59 GMT -6
Well you know, it kinds of makes me wonder why just about anyone, who is anyone, who makes jeans on this planet, discloses where the denim comes from, as it shows quality, and transparency, but Gustin doesn't do this, and purposely chooses not to do this. We can only wonder why?  ?? |
|
|
|
Post by jockohomo on Nov 11, 2014 23:34:16 GMT -6
jockohomo; maybe I didn't make my point clear enough with my last comment, but the article you just posted the link to is proving my point that I was trying to express earlier. Just because a denim is a Japanese or Italian denim it does not mean it is a high quality denim. Which is precisely why I think it would be beneficial for GUSTIN to disclose the source of their fabrics. I'm not saying that GUSTIN isn't sourcing their fabrics from Kuroki, Nihon Menpu, Kaihara, Candiani, etc..they very well could be. But the fact that they do not disclose that information makes me second guess the source and makes me a little uncertain of whether I am getting denim from "one of the finest mills in Japan". It's very contradictory to say you shouldnt believe everything you read and then in the same post say that you have no doubt that GUSTIN is sourcing their denims from the top mills because they say they are. This again proves the point I am making. It's obviously not a deal breaker to me, I have a good amount of GUSTIN jeans that I am very happy with, but it shows that the transparency isnt quite there with GUISTIN and brings up the question...why? If I was sourcing my denim from Kaihara, Nihon Menpu, etc...I would be screaming it from the mountain tops. It would be the first line in my product description; "Ickes denim made from the famous Nihon Menpu mill in Japan"... Look, I could be completely wrong jockohomo, but I've enjoyed the discussion: ) I will have to admit I don't even remember what "point" you were trying to make. To tell you the truth, it kind of sounded more like whining to me especially given the fact that you bought umpteen pairs of Gustin jeans without a peep about where the denim came from. I can say that I don't rely on what Gustin says about the origin of their Japanese denim because it is not a deal breaker to me either. I said I do not have a reason to believe that they do not source their denim from some of the finest mills in Japan. I asked you to tell us why you might believe they are not, and to this point have not gotten an answer to that question. You did indicate that you are a very happy with your Gustin jeans just as I am. I guess the point I am trying to make is that no matter what they say, you, nor I, have the expertise to either prove or disprove their representation. So in the words of the former Senator from New York, "what difference does it make!!" |
|
|
|
Post by exophobe on Nov 11, 2014 23:39:14 GMT -6
Well you know, it kinds of makes me wonder why just about anyone, who is anyone, who makes jeans on this planet, discloses where the denim comes from, as it shows quality, and transparency, but Gustin doesn't do this, and purposely chooses not to do this. We can only wonder why? ?? Given what I've seen from Gustin, I'd guess it's more that they don't think it's important, second to that I'd say they believe it will give competitors in their space an edge to do so, and come in and give them a run for their money. Much further down the list would be that they're lying or being disingenuous, and certainly not because this stuff isn't coming from Japan. Now, I wouldn't be surprised to find that they don't disclose the specific Japanese mill because it's a lesser known mill, but the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. Their fabric is typically pretty well flawless. Only my Okayama grey x grey have a little flaw in the fabric, but I like it cause it gives them some character. |
|
|
|
Post by ickes on Nov 12, 2014 0:34:24 GMT -6
jockohomo; well I didn't want to continue to carry on with this but I'll answer your question and leave it be. I have a reason to believe there's a possibility that GUSTIN may not source their fabric from some of the top mills because they don't tell us the mills they source their fabrics from. It matters because that would be deception if they didn't source their fabrics from some of the reputable mills.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 1:06:07 GMT -6
Probably because, as Cody stated, the silks are sold in boutiques for $600+. Don't want to short change themselves. Where exactly did you see that? I didn't see $600+ mentioned in the product description nor in the email announcing the release. Did he mention this in the community (checked there, didn't see it)? I'm not debating it, I just find that estimate to be a little...inflated. I'm on the fence with backing them, perhaps I'll hold off and opt for their second run. |
|
|
|
Post by ickes on Nov 12, 2014 1:25:49 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by Griffin on Nov 12, 2014 2:27:24 GMT -6
I don`t have doubt that there is a greysilk out there for 180. But the linked jeans are not the same. They arent selvadge, the are 2oz lighter and woven alot more open. The fabric is not close to as "beautiful" as the G silks. Regarding the mills........Harder for competitors....and gives them a bigger window. People buy the jeans - win. Looking at us today, I think Gustin is doing it right. Many people here have no shame and if the full specs were given, G would source fabric, people here would ask LD to make it for 50% off the price and he would. This is already happening on some fabrics that members have happened to find are the same. If I were G, I would be tapping my own shoulder. |
|
|
|
Post by julian on Nov 12, 2014 3:05:09 GMT -6
It's not a matter of knowing the source because I prefer Nihon Menpu over Kaihara, it's a matter of knowing the source because I want to know that I am indeed buying Nihon Menpu or Kaihara. Totally agree with this. Also, asking whether one mill is 'better' than another isn't the right question to ask. It's like when people say, 'How do Gustin jeans fade?' - the answer will be different from one denim to the next, despite the fact they all have the same brand badge sewn in to them. It's surprising how something so seemingly obvious appears to pass some people by (hi, r/). In other words, the (surprisingly few) mills in Japan all make numerous fabrics. Some will be 'better' than others. Although, even that's subjective depending on what you prefer. For example, I know people who won't buy denim over 15oz, just as I know people who won't buy anything under 16oz. To each his own, and all that. It also makes me laugh when people say, 'Well, that mill makes the denim for *insert top-tier jeans maker* so if I buy a pair made from denim from the same mill at $90 they'll basically be the same denim'. Well, no, they're basically unlikely to be the same denim at all, that's kind of the point. Ironically, some of the premium/exclusive denim specifically have attributes deliberately woven into them that could, in fact, be considered flaws. I also wonder how much certain companies are led by the mills themselves. Without wanting to stir up a hornets' nest, some items have made me think that certain 'rounding up' may have been done with regards to denim weight and there seems to have been fabrics positioned as unique when it was demonstrably not the case. NOTE: I'm not blaming the jeans vendors here. |
|
judge for your self 
??
