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Post by northcoast on Nov 19, 2017 20:16:32 GMT -6
Found this in a Well Spent piece about reactions to the Cone closing: "Some feel that the shuttering is emblematic of hypocrisy among American consumers: “[customers] simultaneously complain about imported products, job loss and low wages, and then buy their jeans at Costco,” says Tellason founder, Tony Patella. While others seem more willing to accept the shuttering as the price of globalization: “As much as the Trump administration is touting ‘America First,’” says Michael Maher of Taylor Stitch, “we believe we live in a global world, and provenance is becoming less important.” " www.nytimes.com/2017/11/10/style/goodbye-american-selvage-jeans.html |
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Post by bentin on Nov 19, 2017 21:14:46 GMT -6
What a convenient stand to take after using the MiUSA banner to gain success. I admit that I've bought a few things from them this year, but only MiUSA things.
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Post by davelewis on Nov 19, 2017 21:27:50 GMT -6
Maybe the old guy that Ciano knows can ramp up and take the market share from Cone, lol. I think that if Cone was unable to compete, it might have something to do with them not stepping outside the box, and start making heavier weight, and more interesting denim that their competitors outside the US did. It is sad to loose the legacy, but with any business, if you don't innovate and stay relevant, you fall by the wayside.
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Post by bentin on Nov 19, 2017 21:37:01 GMT -6
Maybe the old guy that Ciano knows can ramp up and take the market share from Cone, lol. I think that if Cone was unable to compete, it might have something to do with them not stepping outside the box, and start making heavier weight, and more interesting denim that their competitors outside the US did. It is sad to loose the legacy, but with any business, if you don't innovate and stay relevant, you fall by the wayside. Gotta agree with this. If Roy is the best Cone could do, and Roy's are phenominally well made, but the denim (in pictures) doesn't seem nearly as unique as the guys from PBJ, Oni, TSG or others offer in regular production models. |
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Post by DigDug on Nov 19, 2017 23:24:33 GMT -6
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Post by scooter on Nov 19, 2017 23:49:14 GMT -6
I'd love to know what happens to those old Draper looms.....
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Post by nate001 on Nov 20, 2017 8:13:14 GMT -6
Found this in a Well Spent piece about reactions to the Cone closing: "Some feel that the shuttering is emblematic of hypocrisy among American consumers: “[customers] simultaneously complain about imported products, job loss and low wages, and then buy their jeans at Costco,” says Tellason founder, Tony Patella. While others seem more willing to accept the shuttering as the price of globalization: “As much as the Trump administration is touting ‘America First,’” says Michael Maher of Taylor Stitch, “we believe we live in a global world, and provenance is becoming less important.” " www.nytimes.com/2017/11/10/style/goodbye-american-selvage-jeans.htmlI can't decide what I resent more. The TS guy's cynicism or the fact that he makes a completely unfounded statement about the unimportance of provenance. Most polls that I have read suggest that American consumers prefer MiUSA goods and are willing to pay *some* premium. The question, of course, is how much of a premium. Also, who doesn't like a story with the crap they buy? I think I am officially done with TS...starting now. They make some nice shirts, but this is not something I can support anymore. EDIT: At the risk of censoring by mods, the ultimate irony here is the guy who is so fixated on trade imbalances with Asia is the very same guy who produces his tacky ass ties and shirts in SE Asia. |
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Post by northcoast on Nov 20, 2017 8:19:13 GMT -6
Then look at the Well Spent editors quote in the WSJ piece talking about the 2 NYC companies having "Itallian quality at Chinese prices".
Um WHAT! They are charging near or over $100 for BASICS on those 2 sites. Well, I guess he means "Chinese prices" for the vendors cost of production.
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Post by northcoast on Nov 20, 2017 8:24:06 GMT -6
Found this in a Well Spent piece about reactions to the Cone closing: "Some feel that the shuttering is emblematic of hypocrisy among American consumers: “[customers] simultaneously complain about imported products, job loss and low wages, and then buy their jeans at Costco,” says Tellason founder, Tony Patella. While others seem more willing to accept the shuttering as the price of globalization: “As much as the Trump administration is touting ‘America First,’” says Michael Maher of Taylor Stitch, “we believe we live in a global world, and provenance is becoming less important.” " www.nytimes.com/2017/11/10/style/goodbye-american-selvage-jeans.htmlI can't decide what I resent more. The TS guy's cynicism or the fact that he makes a completely unfounded statement about the unimportance of provenance. Most polls that I have read suggest that American consumers prefer MiUSA goods and are willing to pay *some* premium. The question, of course, is how much of a premium. Also, who doesn't like a story with the crap they buy? I think I am officially done with TS...starting now. They make some nice shirts, but this is not something I can support anymore. EDIT: At the risk of censoring by mods, the ultimate irony here is the guy who is so fixated on trade imbalances with Asia is the very same guy who produces his tacky ass ties and shirts in SE Asia. I appreciate that sentiment but I'm in the "do what I can" camp since I am locked in to TS based on fit. I do agree that Provenance does mean something to me, but if I personally cant wear it, it's not helpful. Also, I'm the only one I know into this hobby. I got my buddy to buy a few pairs of jeans but thats about it. There is a funny SF thread that I have looked at sparingly titled something like "Things SF members care about but nobody else does". I think pretty much this cone thing could go in that thread. Also, did anyone see the LEE line with 'serial numbers' where they are making Cone pieces. Now that it's going under we should start a "Monetizing the demise of Cone" thread. |
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Post by northcoast on Nov 20, 2017 8:25:56 GMT -6
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Post by gaseousclay on Nov 20, 2017 10:16:35 GMT -6
I'd love to know what happens to those old Draper looms..... http://instagram.com/p/BbfNy8VBusb I think these guys grabbed a few, but I can't confirm if these are actually from Cone. |
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Post by gaseousclay on Nov 20, 2017 10:20:12 GMT -6
<abbr data-timestamp="1511187194000" class="o-timestamp time" title="Nov 20, 2017 8:13:14 GMT -6">Nov 20, 2017 8:13:14 GMT -6</abbr> nate001 said: I can't decide what I resent more. The TS guy's cynicism or the fact that he makes a completely unfounded statement about the unimportance of provenance. Most polls that I have read suggest that American consumers prefer MiUSA goods and are willing to pay *some* premium. The question, of course, is how much of a premium. Also, who doesn't like a story with the crap they buy? I think I am officially done with TS...starting now. They make some nice shirts, but this is not something I can support anymore. EDIT: At the risk of censoring by mods, the ultimate irony here is the guy who is so fixated on trade imbalances with Asia is the very same guy who produces his tacky ass ties and shirts in SE Asia. yep, the ultimate hypocrite if you ask me. I like MiUSA but also MiJ, and MiCanada and I know my dollars aren't going to a company that pays slave wages to their employees. I'm not going to pay a premium for made in China or made in Portugal. TS can suck it. |
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Post by bentin on Nov 20, 2017 10:33:40 GMT -6
You guys are gonna make me burn my red ombré upon arrival.
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Post by DigDug on Nov 20, 2017 12:11:53 GMT -6
Think I'll be doing another No Spend Year this year
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Post by nate001 on Dec 13, 2017 6:43:56 GMT -6
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Post by northcoast on Dec 13, 2017 7:55:54 GMT -6
I found the fabric portion of the article interesting. That was one of the things that really drove me to Gustin, their fabrics.
My hierarchy has been pretty well slated to MiUSA since I got into all this a few years ago, but fit has primacy over all factors for me.
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Post by bentin on Dec 13, 2017 9:42:08 GMT -6
First comment nailed it. If you make stuff in the US, you have an identity. The second you outsource, you're just a shitty J Crew copy.
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Post by davelewis on Dec 13, 2017 11:22:43 GMT -6
I think the biggest problem with MIUSA clothing, is that there are simply not enough people with the talent to do so. I would bet that within all the the people on this forum, that it would be a challenge to find anyone who knows someone that makes clothing for their income. It is a skill that has gone by the wayside. When I was a kid, girls were able to take sewing classes, or learned some of the skills from their mothers. Who does that anymore? Throw in decades of outsourcing, and your at where we are today.
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Post by nate001 on Dec 13, 2017 12:25:51 GMT -6
I found the fabric portion of the article interesting. That was one of the things that really drove me to Gustin, their fabrics. My hierarchy has been pretty well slated to MiUSA since I got into all this a few years ago, but fit has primacy over all factors for me. The argument that you need to outsource production because that is where the fabrics are made is a flimsy one. As Gustin (and many other companies) have shown, you can put fabric on a boat and send it here. |
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Post by nate001 on Dec 13, 2017 12:30:11 GMT -6
I think the biggest problem with MIUSA clothing, is that there are simply not enough people with the talent to do so. I would bet that within all the the people on this forum, that it would be a challenge to find anyone who knows someone that makes clothing for their income. It is a skill that has gone by the wayside. When I was a kid, girls were able to take sewing classes, or learned some of the skills from their mothers. Who does that anymore? Throw in decades of outsourcing, and your at where we are today. You know who holds the sewing knowledge now the in US? Immigrants. Primarily from Latin America and Asia. This, to me, is a solid argument for easier immigration. The demand for this skill exists...hopefully hired following appropriate labor laws and as a bonus, union organization! |
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Post by nate001 on Dec 13, 2017 12:32:07 GMT -6
First comment nailed it. If you make stuff in the US, you have an identity. The second you outsource, you're just a shitty J Crew copy. Agreed. I have unsubscribed from Taylor Stitch emails. They make a nice shirt, but there is absolutely no reason to pay a premium price for their shirts now. If I am not mistaken, their prices have not gone down on shirts that used to be MiUSA or are very similar to shirts that used to be MiUSA. |
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Post by bentin on Dec 13, 2017 12:32:12 GMT -6
I found the fabric portion of the article interesting. That was one of the things that really drove me to Gustin, their fabrics. My hierarchy has been pretty well slated to MiUSA since I got into all this a few years ago, but fit has primacy over all factors for me. The argument that you need to outsource production because that is where the fabrics are made is a flimsy one. As Gustin (and many other companies) have shown, you can put fabric on a boat and send it here. And sew it on the boat, in choppy seas. |
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Post by ncbluegrass on Dec 13, 2017 12:34:26 GMT -6
Works well for Bourbon.
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Post by matt on Dec 13, 2017 13:00:34 GMT -6
First comment nailed it. If you make stuff in the US, you have an identity. The second you outsource, you're just a shitty J Crew copy. Agreed. I have unsubscribed from Taylor Stitch emails. They make a nice shirt, but there is absolutely no reason to pay a premium price for their shirts now. If I am not mistaken, their prices have not gone down on shirts that used to be MiUSA or are very similar to shirts that used to be MiUSA. I have not unsubscribed, but limit my interest in their items that are now arbitrarily made in the USA. The Merino wool henley was a nice recent pick-up. But aside from the few and far between offering, I don't see the justification in rewarding their overseas cash grab. Sadly, our voice is that of the minority - I don't think a strong percentage of TS shoppers care as much as we like to think they do. |
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Post by davelewis on Dec 13, 2017 13:26:49 GMT -6
I think the biggest problem with MIUSA clothing, is that there are simply not enough people with the talent to do so. I would bet that within all the the people on this forum, that it would be a challenge to find anyone who knows someone that makes clothing for their income. It is a skill that has gone by the wayside. When I was a kid, girls were able to take sewing classes, or learned some of the skills from their mothers. Who does that anymore? Throw in decades of outsourcing, and your at where we are today. You know who holds the sewing knowledge now the in US? Immigrants. Primarily from Latin America and Asia. This, to me, is a solid argument for easier immigration. The demand for this skill exists...hopefully hired following appropriate labor laws and as a bonus, union organization! And its probably been this way since the 50s-60s. I think back in the day, that's what a lot of housewives that got jobs would do, but times have changed and women don't want that kind of work. I'm totally for immigrants with skills coming here to fill the needed gaps, as some jobs Americans don't want to do anymore. |
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