|
|
Post by northcoast on Dec 16, 2016 8:14:17 GMT -6
I just came across this and am throwing it out there to add to the boards general knowledge base because it has been discussed a few times before in various threads. I found this interesting from a production POV. full disclosure - I own made in Portugal garments from at least TS and Indigofera. - NC Why the Garments Are ‘Made in Portugal’While the exclusively developed denim is from Japan, Indigofera garments are cut and sewn in Portugal, except for the blankets, which are made in Norway, and a few accessories that are made in Sweden. Now, that may make some put on a pout—I’ve been guilty of that myself, remember. Honestly, that’s just snobbery, probably grounded in the assumption that ‘Made in [insert first world country here]’ is better. After wearing a handful of different Indigofera jeans over the past three years, I can attest that they certainly don’t hold up any worse than the American- or Japanese-made jeans I own. In fact, on several occasions, it’s been the opposite. And in terms of the craftsmanship and attention to detail of the sewing, I don’t see much difference. Of course, the choice of producing in Portugal was not coincidental for Mats. Our idea was to produce in Europe. We don’t have borders, there are no internal taxation, and it’s relatively easy to travel.” This all makes production easier, faster and less costly. Portugal is still an affordable country to produce in. It is, of course, more expensive than if you go to Africa or Asia. But you go there and you see it’s Portuguese seamstresses who live in the village nearby. They are having minimum wages, they have proper ventilation, they have lunch breaks. It’s not a sweatshop.” Another upside of producing in Portugal is that they have plenty of vertical production. If you like, you can go there and find your labels, your denim, your canvas, your sewing, you can wash it, you can treat it, you can package it. You can do the entire product and you don’t have to leave Portugal. We go to our denim factory, we go to our knitting factory, we don’t wash a lot but we go to the laundry—everything is within one hour of driving.” www.denimhunters.com/how-to-start-a-denim-brand/ |
|
|
|
Post by bentin on Dec 16, 2016 9:05:45 GMT -6
Screw that.
|
|
|
|
Post by ickes on Dec 16, 2016 9:09:10 GMT -6
bentin why the dislike for goods made in Portugal? And Portugal in general for that matter?
|
|
|
|
Post by bentin on Dec 16, 2016 9:26:39 GMT -6
bentin why the dislike for goods made in Portugal? And Portugal in general for that matter? Mostly just for the joke. But I also just prefer that when Taylor Stitch offers things, that they're made in the US. I mean they call them California and they put maps of San Fran on the pocket bags and then they arbitrarily sew some of it in Portugal. Just seems stupid when they clearly have sew shops in California. They really pissed me off with the blue and grey check Glacier that still shows Made in California on the site, but mine has a Portugal tag. I backed it because it was a CA produced shirt. Then there's Proper Cloth. They used to made their shirts in the US but ostensibly moved production to Portugal to keep prices down. But they're not as cheap as they were when they made them here, so I switched to Ratio. I'm not a small handed Cheeto. I like Made in the USA when it's equal quality to made elsewhere. But I also love British and German made goods and Japanese denim. I don't mind Portugal. I buy at least one bottle of vintage Port every year. My wife's family is from there and we plan on taking the kid there when he's old enough to get it. But rest assured, I won't be bringing any shirts back. |
|
|
|
Post by ickes on Dec 16, 2016 9:31:52 GMT -6
bentin why the dislike for goods made in Portugal? And Portugal in general for that matter? Mostly just for the joke. But I also just prefer that when Taylor Stitch offers things, that they're made in the US. I mean they call them California and they put maps of San Fran on the pocket bags and then they arbitrarily sew some of it in Portugal. Just seems stupid when they clearly have sew shops in California. They really pissed me off with the blue and grey check Glacier that still shows Made in California on the site, but mine has a Portugal tag. I backed it because it was a CA produced shirt. Then there's Proper Cloth. They used to made their shirts in the US but ostensibly moved production to Portugal to keep prices down. But they're not as cheap as they were when they made them here, so I switched to Ratio. I'm not a small handed Cheeto. I like Made in the USA when it's equal quality to made elsewhere. But I also love British and German made goods and Japanese denim. I don't mind Portugal. I buy at least one bottle of vintage Port every year. My wife's family is from there and we plan on taking the kid there when he's old enough to get it. But rest assured, I won't be bringing any shirts back. I figured this was the case. I was just asking in case there was some crazy-underground-inhumane-sweatshop-shit going on that I wasn't aware of. I was about to start searching Netflix for a documentary. |
|
|
|
Post by bentin on Dec 16, 2016 9:37:20 GMT -6
Ill put a call into Michael Moore.
Honestly, the things I have of theirs are well made and aligned in a manner that would cause Gustin to explode.
I imagine that as a member of the EU, their production is above board and they have a Works Council that gets each employee ten weeks of paid vacation, a four hour lunch and on site dental and surgical services.
|
|
|
|
Post by northcoast on Dec 19, 2016 20:39:02 GMT -6
Alex Jones ehh?
Cmon man. Even if it's ironic that guy is an idiot.
|
|
|
|
Post by northcoast on Apr 27, 2017 11:29:33 GMT -6
Continued growth has led Outlier to look elsewhere for the scale necessary to keep up with demand. For instance, a lot of their button-down shirt production has moved to Portugal. “If we’re doing a hundred shirts in New York, we can make a really high quality shirt at that scale, but if you want to make three hundred it’s really hard…. In Portugal right now, it’s kind of like the sweet spot that we’ve seen – it’s Western Europe, people are treated well, the pay is good and the quality is really good.” That’s not to say they haven’t given up on finding a US-based solution, but it’s proven to be challenging to find one that suits their needs. “There are good shirt factories in America, but our shirt pattern is pretty different with the pivot sleeve. And the shirt factories that do volume well in America are very, very conservative. We’ve gotten them to do it at times and it’s just not in their DNA.” www.heddels.com/2017/04/made-in-nyc-how-the-garment-district-helps-young-brands-beneath-the-surface/ |
|
|
|
Post by bentin on Apr 27, 2017 11:35:14 GMT -6
Buying a few Almond shirts to protest. Made in my state.
|
|
|
|
Post by northcoast on Apr 27, 2017 13:35:24 GMT -6
Buying a few Almond shirts to protest. Made in my state. I read this article earlier about NYC then I was just downstairs talking to security guard who works in my building. He ends up pointing me to the old fashioned bulletin board about something else and I see an ad for sewers just outside of downtown, about a 15 min or less drive from where the add was posted. For further background I work in Asiatown in an Chinese owned and occupied building. Anyways, security guard guy tells me that there are 5 workers retiring and they are trying to replace them. Apparently it's a solid place that has decent conditions and pay. He said that he talked to a couple Asian women who live nearby to my work and they said they didn't drive so they could not work there. FWIW What is the Almond brand? |
|
|
|
Post by bentin on Apr 27, 2017 13:41:42 GMT -6
A tiny little shop near my old place in California. I think they use the same CA sew shop as North Menswear, and a place in El Paso that the ghost of Flint & Tinder still uses. almondsurfboards.com |
|
|
|
Post by bentin on Apr 27, 2017 13:44:05 GMT -6
But to be fair, I'm less and less convinced that Americans can sew patterns. Taylor Stitch, Gustin, Gitman, Hamilton, New England Shirt, etc all seem to be able to mess up plackets, alignment, pockets, skew, yokes, whatever.
Actually I'm leaning towards all casual wear not made in China being poorly aligned as non of the Japanese seem to be any good at it either.
|
|
|
|
Post by northcoast on Apr 27, 2017 14:32:04 GMT -6
A tiny little shop near my old place in California. I think they use the same CA sew shop as North Menswear, and a place in El Paso that the ghost of Flint & Tinder still uses. almondsurfboards.comPricing model is affordable for MiUSA and I guess I could cut off the tags. |
|
|
|
Post by bentin on Apr 27, 2017 14:36:12 GMT -6
Yeah, I will be experimenting with slicing off said tag once I get it.
|
|
|
|
Post by ncbluegrass on Apr 28, 2017 7:55:42 GMT -6
the ghost of Flint & Tinder still uses. explain |
|
|
|
Post by bentin on Apr 28, 2017 8:06:41 GMT -6
the ghost of Flint & Tinder still uses. explain F&T was a good, cheap purveyor of MiUSA shirts and jeans. But they also did a bunch of undies and sweatshirts. They were sold to a big company that just sort of has them dwindling away over on Huckberry with three moleskin shirts, not really ideal for summer. |
|
|
|
Post by ncbluegrass on Apr 28, 2017 8:09:18 GMT -6
ah ok... i am familiar with F&T, but only through Huckberry. The way that Huckberry pushes them i figured it was their own private label.
|
|
|
|
Post by bentin on Apr 28, 2017 8:15:59 GMT -6
ah ok... i am familiar with F&T, but only through Huckberry. The way that Huckberry pushes them i figured it was their own private label. I think it kind of is. They used to be more like TS, with frequent crowd funding campaigns and much more frequent new products. Their shirts are a great fit for me, I have a couple of chambrays that were $40/ea or so and great shirts. The guys that started F&T went to a screwball men's jewelry company after they were sent packing. Haven't seen much from them recently. |
|
|
|
Post by gaseousclay on Apr 28, 2017 8:49:20 GMT -6
bentin why the dislike for goods made in Portugal? And Portugal in general for that matter? Mostly just for the joke. But I also just prefer that when Taylor Stitch offers things, that they're made in the US. I mean they call them California and they put maps of San Fran on the pocket bags and then they arbitrarily sew some of it in Portugal. Just seems stupid when they clearly have sew shops in California. They really pissed me off with the blue and grey check Glacier that still shows Made in California on the site, but mine has a Portugal tag. I backed it because it was a CA produced shirt. Then there's Proper Cloth. They used to made their shirts in the US but ostensibly moved production to Portugal to keep prices down. But they're not as cheap as they were when they made them here, so I switched to Ratio. I'm not a small handed Cheeto. I like Made in the USA when it's equal quality to made elsewhere. But I also love British and German made goods and Japanese denim. I don't mind Portugal. I buy at least one bottle of vintage Port every year. My wife's family is from there and we plan on taking the kid there when he's old enough to get it. But rest assured, I won't be bringing any shirts back. I kinda feel the same way, especially with TS. I don't like that they've offshored manufacturing to Portugal because their whole thing was about MiUSA when they started out. I get that they've grown and part of that meant that they needed a production facility to keep up with demand, but in doing so their prices haven't gone down even though their costs likely did. I think I only own 2 shirts that are made in Portugal and those are my Filson cascade shirts. Most of my other non-US made shirts were thrifted and the ones i've purchased in the last 2 yrs are either MiUSA or Japan. I'll support MiUSA companies when it makes sense to do so, but the quality does have to match what i'm paying, as you've stated. This goes for any product whether it's denim, shirting or leather goods. |
|
|
|
Post by bentin on Apr 28, 2017 8:52:37 GMT -6
I am aware of the irony of my love for Japanese denim while casting stones at Portugal. Oni, Samurai, PBJ all hit my radar long before US brands when i'm shopping for new jeans.
|
|
|
|
Post by matt on Apr 28, 2017 8:59:50 GMT -6
I am aware of the irony of my love for Japanese denim while casting stones at Portugal. Oni, Samurai, PBJ all hit my radar long before US brands when i'm shopping for new jeans. This is a completely valid point though. The Japanese offerings have certain characteristics about them that I don't see often enough in US brands. I'd love to see more US brands trying to replicate some of the shuttle loom weave techniques. Low tension offerings, etc. If everything else is MiUSA, one item can probably be outside of the US. Maybe that can be the unwritten rule. |
|
|
|
Post by bentin on Apr 28, 2017 9:24:20 GMT -6
Already wear a German watch. Dammit. Today's rundown.
TS MiUSA Sashiko shirt,
RgT jeans MiUSA but Nihon Menpu denim
Ciano t MiUSA of Texas cotton
Richer Poorer MiUSA socks
JCrew Chinese drawers
Vans Chinese shoes
Jack Spade wallet, Chinese
iPhone 7+ Chinese AF
Kershaw Leek MiUSA
I've been debating a pair of PF Flyers to get my sneaker game on board, but the NB kerfuffle sort of put that on hold.
|
|
|
|
Post by gaseousclay on Apr 28, 2017 10:11:24 GMT -6
I am aware of the irony of my love for Japanese denim while casting stones at Portugal. Oni, Samurai, PBJ all hit my radar long before US brands when i'm shopping for new jeans. This is a completely valid point though. The Japanese offerings have certain characteristics about them that I don't see often enough in US brands. I'd love to see more US brands trying to replicate some of the shuttle loom weave techniques. Low tension offerings, etc. If everything else is MiUSA, one item can probably be outside of the US. Maybe that can be the unwritten rule. I think this is why only a small handful of US denim companies offer Japanese denim in their lineup. I don't remember all the companies that do this but RgT, 3sixteen, N&F, Shockoe (I think) and now Freenote all have Japanese denim in their lineups. Compare that with other companies that offer Cone denim as their sole offering. I know some of you guys like Cone and that Roy Denim is probably one of the few makers out there doing anything interesting with it, but it seems to me that Japanese denim is the gold standard when it comes to fabrics. I know that i'm not paying $220 for Cone denim when there are other US brands and a lot of Japanese brands offering stuff that's more interesting. |
|
