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Post by brentkuz on Mar 18, 2016 6:57:37 GMT -6
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Post by seth on Mar 18, 2016 7:11:54 GMT -6
Thanks. Great article. Another acknowledgement of the basic idea that reproduction workwear like this is fashion, a hobby, and not really tied to value. "If you’re going to spend that much on a flannel shirt, you have to check any notion of utility or value at the proverbial door. When I bought that shirt, I was entering the luxury zone – an alternate reality where the utility of something is completely divorced from its price." And that's perfectly fine. I sometimes get annoyed when people buy expensive "work wear" and then try to justify the high cost by rationalizing that it will last longer than something like double front carhartt or dickies workwear. So it's refreshing to read a realistic take on this hobby.
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Post by northcoast on Mar 18, 2016 7:42:31 GMT -6
My takeaway from that article was the "hidden in the closet" syndrome. Gotta buy pieces to wear, not admire. I've been working on this myself, wear it or sell it, don't treat it like a suit and only break it out for special occasions.
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Post by gaseousclay on Mar 18, 2016 7:46:52 GMT -6
Thanks. Great article. Another acknowledgement of the basic idea that reproduction workwear like this is fashion, a hobby, and not really tied to value. "If you’re going to spend that much on a flannel shirt, you have to check any notion of utility or value at the proverbial door. When I bought that shirt, I was entering the luxury zone – an alternate reality where the utility of something is completely divorced from its price." And that's perfectly fine. I sometimes get annoyed when people buy expensive "work wear" and then try to justify the high cost by rationalizing that it will last longer than something like double front carhartt or dickies workwear. So it's refreshing to read a realistic take on this hobby. maybe i'm being obstuse but I've always assumed that most of us buy specific clothing brands because a) we're helping to support these companies so that they can continue to produce quality goods b) when we talk about value we're divorcing ourselves from those companies that choose to use questionable labor practices overseas and throw huge mark ups on their goods - ie. a Japanese/US/Canadian made garment was made by craftsman and not in some dodgy factory from the tears of 10 yr old children. c) brand association. let's be real, when we buy from certain brands it's like being in an exclusive club where only those 'in the know' truly get why you wear IH, RgT, 3sixteen, etc. It's that association that makes us feel different and not some shlub buying cheap OTR shirts from Macy's. The key is that a lot of consumers are choosing to educate themselves about the products they buy so that they're making an informed purchase. I used to like Carhartt, in fact, I own a knit hat from them, but I can't get over the fact that this used to be a company that manufactured its goods in the US but has succumbed to outsourcing their manufacturing overseas. I get it, they're a business and they want to maximize profits. But, it's ironic that they cater to the working man because it's the working man that likely lost their job because of Carhartt's business decisions. When I look at these smaller companies via Instagram I see a new generation of business owners that see the value of keeping their manufacturing local.
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Post by gaseousclay on Mar 18, 2016 7:50:08 GMT -6
My takeaway from that article was the "hidden in the closet" syndrome. Gotta buy pieces to wear, not admire. I've been working on this myself, wear it or sell it, don't treat it like a suit and only break it out for special occasions. i'm guilty of this, especially with jeans. But i'd say in those instances I tend to make impulse purchases because I saw something that was too good of a deal to pass up. Thus, I have a closet full of unworn denim. My shirt purchases easily get more wear but it's all seasonal. the 3sixteen crosscut flannel that was referenced is a good example. that flannel is easily the warmest flannel shirt I own, to the point that I sweat in it even when it's 20 degrees outside. I see pics of guys on Instagram wearing the crosscut flannel in warmer climates and my thought is, "how the hell can you wear a thick flannel in California weather?"
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Post by brentkuz on Mar 18, 2016 8:37:17 GMT -6
I do not buy from a specific company because I want to support them. Branding to me is bull crap. I like well made stuff MiUS if possible but it's not a must. If I see something I like at Gap or Jcrew I buy it. I don't care if they are some multinational company that makes goods in a third world country. I wish I could buy only made in USA But it's not gonna happen at this stage of the game.
Def gotta wear more stuff. This is why I put a good amount of stuff on eBay and selling more clothing. I really want to trim down.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2016 8:57:27 GMT -6
Like wise I've never purchased because I support a brand. If I want to support something I'll give money to a charity. 90% of the clothing we purchase is way past the point of diminished return. To think otherwise is ?. I've always thought of IH ( just an example ) as a luxury lifestyle brand and that's cool. I own some, but to think otherwise isn't realistic.
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Post by MiddleAge on Mar 18, 2016 9:20:04 GMT -6
My takeaway from that article was the "hidden in the closet" syndrome. Gotta buy pieces to wear, not admire. I've been working on this myself, wear it or sell it, don't treat it like a suit and only break it out for special occasions. i'm guilty of this, especially with jeans. But i'd say in those instances I tend to make impulse purchases because I saw something that was too good of a deal to pass up. Thus, I have a closet full of unworn denim. My shirt purchases easily get more wear but it's all seasonal. the 3sixteen crosscut flannel that was referenced is a good example. that flannel is easily the warmest flannel shirt I own, to the point that I sweat in it even when it's 20 degrees outside. I see pics of guys on Instagram wearing the crosscut flannel in warmer climates and my thought is, "how the hell can you wear a thick flannel in California weather?" My dark period on this is about one year ago when I was bored with my life in midwest + this forum. Buying too many craps that I didn't wear and end up spending time to sell them on ebay or donated when I moved. Life priority was so out of whack when I was constantly looking at my next item(s) to purchase. It was almost like an addict and hoarding things that I totally don't need. Anyway, beside that hyped NMD or a pair of Shell Alden, I am happy with what I have now.
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Post by brentkuz on Mar 18, 2016 9:24:30 GMT -6
2012-2014 I bought a lot of crap. Then got into Gustin jeans now iron heart.
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Post by exophobe on Mar 18, 2016 9:35:30 GMT -6
I love that the 3sixteen flannel is the bargain-bin comparison.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2016 9:36:53 GMT -6
I love that the 3sixteen flannel is the bargain-bin comparison. Haha. Visvim is one of the most over priced brands ever.
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Post by exophobe on Mar 18, 2016 9:39:43 GMT -6
Thanks. Great article. Another acknowledgement of the basic idea that reproduction workwear like this is fashion, a hobby, and not really tied to value. "If you’re going to spend that much on a flannel shirt, you have to check any notion of utility or value at the proverbial door. When I bought that shirt, I was entering the luxury zone – an alternate reality where the utility of something is completely divorced from its price." And that's perfectly fine. I sometimes get annoyed when people buy expensive "work wear" and then try to justify the high cost by rationalizing that it will last longer than something like double front carhartt or dickies workwear. So it's refreshing to read a realistic take on this hobby. I feel like a jerk that I can't remember who's doing it (other than @untucked ), but someone is running an experiment comparing iron heart workwear to Carrhart or whatever is typically purchased. Then there's also that guy on Instagram I can't remember that works in his "fashion workwear".
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Post by gaseousclay on Mar 18, 2016 9:48:20 GMT -6
My dark period on this is about one year ago when I was bored with my life in midwest + this forum. Buying too many craps that I didn't wear and end up spending time to sell them on ebay or donated when I moved. Life priority was so out of whack when I was constantly looking at my next item(s) to purchase. It was almost like an addict and hoarding things that I totally don't need. Anyway, beside that hyped NMD or a pair of Shell Alden, I am happy with what I have now. I touched upon this before but I think life/stress/depression had turned me into an addict of sorts and I would often buy things to feel better. I'd see a sale somewhere or a grail item and I absolutely had to buy it. now that i've imposed a 90 day no spend my hope is that I can lay off of making any purchases beyond 3 months. But then again, i'm no stranger to developing obsessions over 'things' and the need to acquire them. first it was music, then it was safety razors/shaving stuff, then firearms and now denim. I have moved on from all of them and hope to slow down with denim.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2016 9:48:36 GMT -6
Workout being a total fan boy and unnecessarily "fighting" for a brand that I am not the owner of..... I find it hard to compare 17oz duck canvas double knee IH engineer pants to Carhart. There is NO comparison in the attention to detail of fabric engineering and garment construction. I haven't done a head to head comparison, but this is tantamount to saying 15oz generic Levi's are equivalent to 15oz Kamikaze Attack jeans. I promise you, without much research, I can assure you that the guys these garments were ORIGINALLY designed for didn't own 3, 4, 5 or 6 pairs, and they LASTED. Brands like Iron Heart have taken that original design and over-engineered it to a point that is almost laughable.
Maybe Levi's custom made line is an insult, but IH (At Rakuten prices) is a steal for value vs versatility/durability that's NEARLY undeniable
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2016 9:48:40 GMT -6
I'm working in my garage today. Wearing a Tender jacket.
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Post by gaseousclay on Mar 18, 2016 9:50:07 GMT -6
I do not buy from a specific company because I want to support them. Branding to me is bull crap. I like well made stuff MiUS if possible but it's not a must. If I see something I like at Gap or Jcrew I buy it. I don't care if they are some multinational company that makes goods in a third world country. I wish I could buy only made in USA But it's not gonna happen at this stage of the game. Def gotta wear more stuff. This is why I put a good amount of stuff on eBay and selling more clothing. I really want to trim down. branding does suck, but we all make purchases because of a brand's aesthetic, no?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2016 9:54:35 GMT -6
I do not buy from a specific company because I want to support them. Branding to me is bull crap. I like well made stuff MiUS if possible but it's not a must. If I see something I like at Gap or Jcrew I buy it. I don't care if they are some multinational company that makes goods in a third world country. I wish I could buy only made in USA But it's not gonna happen at this stage of the game. Def gotta wear more stuff. This is why I put a good amount of stuff on eBay and selling more clothing. I really want to trim down. branding does suck, but we all make purchases because of a brand's aesthetic, no? If another brand built to the same quality and look as IH, I'd absolutely be in on it. It's not IH specific for me. It may seem that way, but I really just feel that I haven't seen another company over-engineer garments that can put together an all-in-one wardrobe (Work and after work, without having to change clothes) like them.
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Post by DigDug on Mar 18, 2016 10:12:16 GMT -6
Workout being a total fan boy and unnecessarily "fighting" for a brand that I am not the owner of..... I find it hard to compare 17oz duck canvas double knee IH engineer pants to Carhart. There is NO comparison in the attention to detail of fabric engineering and garment construction. I haven't done a head to head comparison, but this is tantamount to saying 15oz generic Levi's are equivalent to 15oz Kamikaze Attack jeans. I promise you, without much research, I can assure you that the guys these garments were ORIGINALLY designed for didn't own 3, 4, 5 or 6 pairs, and they LASTED. Brands like Iron Heart have taken that original design and over-engineered it to a point that is almost laughable. Maybe Levi's custom made line is an insult, but IH (At Rakuten prices) is a steal for value vs versatility/durability that's NEARLY undeniable Personally, I don't see any value in wearing IH vs Carhartt when your laying down roofing, pouring concrete, black topping, clearing brush, etc. Carhartt stands up just as well. For me, I simply got tired of looking like every other guy in Carhertt (like it was a uniform).
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Post by brentkuz on Mar 18, 2016 10:13:00 GMT -6
I wouldn't say that for me at all really. I won't not wear a piece from a "bad" company.
I still bank with BOA, I have four GM vehicles, one harley, one pre-ford Mazda.
I have a glock, remington, H&K walther, springfield etc.
I really try to look at the piece not so much the brand. Of course if you buy an item from a store and you like it you will go back to that store to look for more things. I like JCrew for a lot of things even if they aren't fully made in USA or even that ethically to begin with. In a perfect world I would buy made in the USA by hand by artisans or whatever. Out of organic, self sustaining fabrics etc. But it's not so I wear under armor undershirts and Hanes white T's and own stuff from gap brand.
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Post by gaseousclay on Mar 18, 2016 10:33:58 GMT -6
Personally, I don't see any value in wearing IH vs Carhartt when your laying down roofing, pouring concrete, black topping, clearing brush, etc. Carhartt stands up just as well. For me, I simply got tired of looking like every other guy in Carhertt (like it was a uniform). I agree with this. I have my cheap clothes, which serve as my knockaround gear, and then my expensive clothes which are purely for aesthetics. Not that I could actually do stuff like roofing and such, but I would never wear a nice top or nice jeans if I knew I was going to get absolutely filthy. but in a weird way I think the brands we wear are a kind of uniform, whether it be RgT, 3sixteen or Taylor Stitch. Fwiw, I beat the sh*t out of all of the jeans I wear regardless of brand.
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Post by gaseousclay on Mar 18, 2016 10:39:27 GMT -6
I wouldn't say that for me at all really. I won't not wear a piece from a "bad" company. I still bank with BOA, I have four GM vehicles, one harley, one pre-ford Mazda. I have a glock, remington, H&K walther, springfield etc. I really try to look at the piece not so much the brand. Of course if you buy an item from a store and you like it you will go back to that store to look for more things. I like JCrew for a lot of things even if they aren't fully made in USA or even that ethically to begin with. In a perfect world I would buy made in the USA by hand by artisans or whatever. Out of organic, self sustaining fabrics etc. But it's not so I wear under armor undershirts and Hanes white T's and own stuff from gap brand. it's become harder for me to buy a non-US made garment simply because I don't see the value, as it were, in buying a shirt or whatever that was likely made for pennies on the dollar and then sold at an insane mark-up. even at a steeply discounted price companies like J.Crew/Gap/BR are still making a profit. of course, i'm speculating about the manufacturing costs associated with these companies but it has to be cheap compared to labor and manufacturing costs in the US.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2016 10:54:09 GMT -6
I have a few MIC items that are just as good as anything MIUSA and there are sweat shops here also. I find the term "over engineered clothing" interesting. Clothing is a disposable item. Yes we can keep things a long time but in the end it is disposable. The term over engineered in its self implies waste. Money spent that does not need to be.
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Post by kylepa on Mar 18, 2016 12:01:13 GMT -6
When I got started on this whole raw, selvedge/ workwear/ MiUSA gig I came at it with the idea that I am supporting companies that manufacture in the US, which largely supports hard-working immigrants trying to make a better life for their kids. This is largely the group of people I saw sewing at Filson. At the same time, like others have pointed out, it's a style thing and entrance into a club of people who "get it" which is fine. I also wanted to get out of buying an excessive amount of clothing and buying redundant pieces of clothing. I've largely stuck to this except for with indigo denim, which I have 3 pairs of and its been very freeing and fun. I get to shop around and obsess over brands and styles, find deals, pick out a piece of clothing that fills a role and donate or sell all the gap, jcrew, etc stuff it replaces. The stuff does have a shelf life, like many have pointed out, but I feel ok spending the money because it was made ethically and will last a lot longer than gap/jcrew stuff. There are no clothes that just sit in the closet anymore and I love every piece I've bought.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2016 12:33:07 GMT -6
You have more restraint than I do. Switched the winter to summer shoes today. Holy shit how did this happen!
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Post by gaseousclay on Mar 18, 2016 12:41:54 GMT -6
The stuff does have a shelf life, like many have pointed out, but I feel ok spending the money because it was made ethically and will last a lot longer than gap/jcrew stuff. There are no clothes that just sit in the closet anymore and I love every piece I've bought. there will be exceptions to the rule regarding longevity. Gustin being a prime example of a company whose stuff is US made but has demonstrated that some of their product is poorly made. I feel fortunate to not have had any issues with G's stuff, but it feels like customers are playing a game of chance with their purchases. for that reason, it's fairly easy for me to pass on their stuff. I'm not saying I'll never buy G's stuff again but given the lack of anything even remotely exciting as far as denim is concerned i'd rather spend my money elsewhere. I have some cheap flannel shirts that I thrifted long ago and they're still holding up after 5+ years of being washed/dried repeatedly. the only visible signs of wear on these shirts are some slight fading but that's about it. with that said, nowadays I have a preference for quality over quantity and stuff that is produced in 1st world countries like Japan, Canada and the US.
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