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Post by DigDug on Feb 24, 2015 23:54:29 GMT -6
If you only could spend $300
On one really nice pair (let's say a pair of Iron Hearts) Or
On 2 or 3 pairs of Gustin's? Which would you do?
(Knowing what you know now)
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Post by DigDug on Feb 25, 2015 0:07:44 GMT -6
Id stick to buying Gustins cheaper Denims (HA,OK's,17's)
Then save for 1 really nice pair.
Gustin does good with the lighter common denims. But knowing what I know now I'd go with the more established high end denim suppliers when it comes to the Heavy,Loomstate,Zim denims.
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Post by julian on Feb 25, 2015 6:29:48 GMT -6
Would depend on how many pairs I already had, but I'd almost always go for $300 on one serious pair.
The likes of Gustin are fine for pairs for general wear - and they are a decent product - but after worthwhile experience at both ends of the market, I believe it's slightly delusional (and a false economy) to believe they're any kind of substitute or replacement for a $250/$300 pair of jeans.
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Post by stinky on Feb 25, 2015 8:43:43 GMT -6
$300 will get you a pair of Japan Union Blues + Okas + HAs. Hard to argue with that.
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Post by bentin on Feb 25, 2015 8:59:29 GMT -6
It's certainly cheaper to learn about fit, material weight and weave density by buying a few pairs of Gustin and then getting a few higher quality pieces in your favorite combinations.
I know now how much rise I want, what too narrow in the hips, thighs and calves measures out at and it makes ordering online a lot easier.
Now that I have the basics covered, one $300 pair, but if I were just getting started, two or three pairs of Gustin.
As an aside, Gustins for more than $110-$120 lose their appeal for me as there's just too much competition that's available immediately for not much more.
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Post by jray on Feb 25, 2015 9:06:07 GMT -6
Since I have enough G's - I'd go for 1 pair of expensive one's
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 9:07:55 GMT -6
$300 will get you a pair of Japan Union Blues + Okas + HAs. Hard to argue with that. With all the new vendors and Rakuten, Gustin (and N&F) is no difference than a pair of Gap jeans to me right now. If I have to spend $300 today, I will buy a pair of IH 666s 19oz and Ciano 12oz canvas chino (or Lawless chino if I know exactly the wait time). |
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Post by DigDug on Feb 25, 2015 9:56:14 GMT -6
Seems that most here would agree that Gustin (LD,etc) are GateWay denims.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 9:58:32 GMT -6
Seems that most here would agree that Gustin (LD,etc) are GateWay denims. I don't think I could ever spend three hund on a pair of denim. I know my Gustin fit, so I'd rather spend $300 on a couple G denims than on one. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 10:10:14 GMT -6
Seems that most here would agree that Gustin (LD,etc) are GateWay denims. It is a journey of growth when people realizes quality over quantity. |
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Post by ickes on Feb 25, 2015 10:14:35 GMT -6
This question all depends on the circumstances and what situation I was in. As it stands right now, I would spend 300 on one good pair (IH, etc...) for several reasons. If I was just starting out or if I didn't have very many pairs of jeans I would buy three pairs of G's (black, Indigo, gray).
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Post by DigDug on Feb 25, 2015 10:22:54 GMT -6
Seems that most here would agree that Gustin (LD,etc) are GateWay denims. I don't think I could ever spend three hund on a pair of denim. I know my Gustin fit, so I'd rather spend $300 on a couple G denims than on one. I'd agree to some extent. But I'm now regretting buying some of Gustins higher end denims. I got the BEAST (which are basterds to wear), Loomies, Zim's for around $500. I should have looked around (didn't know of Rakuten at the time). |
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Post by stinky on Feb 25, 2015 10:28:12 GMT -6
I don't think I could ever spend three hund on a pair of denim. I know my Gustin fit, so I'd rather spend $300 on a couple G denims than on one. I'd agree to some extent. But I'm now regretting buying some of Gustins higher end denims. I got the BEAST (which are basterds to wear), Loomies, Zim's for around $500. I should have looked around (didn't know of Rakuten at the time). I have loomies and zimbs, and don't regret buying either one of those--actually quite the opposite. I know that you aren't enchanted with the zimbs, but I absolutely love them and want them to stay that color and texture forever. As for the loomies, I think at $150 delivered, they represent excellent value--well made and great absolutely f'ing amazing fabric. |
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Post by ickes on Feb 25, 2015 10:39:52 GMT -6
I don't think I could ever spend three hund on a pair of denim. I know my Gustin fit, so I'd rather spend $300 on a couple G denims than on one. I'd agree to some extent. But I'm now regretting buying some of Gustins higher end denims. I got the BEAST (which are basterds to wear), Loomies, Zim's for around $500. I should have looked around (didn't know of Rakuten at the time). You regret buying the Loomies and the Zimbs??? I think those are two of the best Gustin jeans made to this point. The Loomstates are freaking awesome and I will back another pair if they drop them again. The Black Loomstates are great as well. I think Gustin did a great job on both the Loomstates. Now I definitely agree with you on the The Beast. Knowing what I know now, I will definitely go elsewhere for heavier denim but honestly I don't think Gustin is going to try anymore campaigns over 18 oz. |
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Post by DigDug on Feb 25, 2015 10:48:17 GMT -6
I'd agree to some extent. But I'm now regretting buying some of Gustins higher end denims. I got the BEAST (which are basterds to wear), Loomies, Zim's for around $500. I should have looked around (didn't know of Rakuten at the time). You regret buying the Loomies and the Zimbs??? I think those are two of the best Gustin jeans made to this point. The Loomstates are freaking awesome and I will back another pair if they drop them again. The Black Loomstates are great as well. I think Gustin did a great job on both the Loomstates. Now I definitely agree with you on the The Beast. Knowing what I know now, I will definitely go elsewhere for heavier denim but honestly I don't think Gustin is going to try anymore campaigns over 18 oz. Ok Regret is a bit harsh except for the BEAST. I thought I'd wear those to the end of time, now im praying for the end of time (or at least the end of the day  But its a toss up on the Zim's and Loomies (don't get me wrong both in my top 3 pairs). But what did I pay, $300. Could I have bought one pair of IH (or similar). Just has me thinking. |
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Post by gaseousclay on Feb 25, 2015 11:08:14 GMT -6
If I had $300 on denim I don't know that i'd buy either brand. I have no doubt that IH makes a high quality garment but part of the $300 you're spending is going toward brand equity. With Gustin, I don't feel confident enough in their fit guides to order jeans from them.
If given a choice I might split the difference and order 1 pair of N&F and some other brand on discount. I think once you get past a certain price point then the law of diminishing returns kicks in and I doubt I could justify spending what I perceive to be an excessive amount on jeans. For example, there are quite a few companies out there selling IxI jeans. I like the look and it really was a hard decision for me to make when you consider a lot of companies use the 'made in Japan of sanforized denim' pitch. I guess 3sixteen's pitch was that their shadow selvedge was made exclusively for them, but the reality is that it doesn't look much different than N&F's midnight selvedge and or E3's/E4's, United Stock Dry Goods' IxI or Rogue Territory's dark Stanton. It all came down to fit for me (and exclusivity).
But I guess I kind of answered the OP's question, i'd rather spend more on a higher quality pair of jeans whose fit and finish i'm familiar with than 3 pairs from a less expensive company.
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Post by Mattbert on Feb 25, 2015 11:21:02 GMT -6
$300 will get you a pair of Japan Union Blues + Okas + HAs. Hard to argue with that. With all the new vendors and Rakuten, Gustin (and N&F) is no difference than a pair of Gap jeans to me right now. I know it's just your opinion and all, but that is a patently ridiculous statement. - Gap currently offers exactly one raw selvedge jean. It's imported and costs $108.
- Gustin, at this particular moment, has four raw selvedge jeans up in the store. They are made in the US and are priced at $80-109. Of course, you only have to wait 2-3 days before another option or two will show up. Most will be under $125. Some might be up around $150-200, but those are the fabrics you can't find elsewhere...certainly not at that price, and possibly not at all, period.
- N&F probably has dozens of raw selvedge jeans available at any one time. They are made in Canada and tend to be priced in the $150-200 range unless you catch a pair on sale.
If you don't see the difference between those three, then you're simply unwilling to see what is there. |
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Post by Tobesjones on Feb 25, 2015 11:23:50 GMT -6
You regret buying the Loomies and the Zimbs??? I think those are two of the best Gustin jeans made to this point. The Loomstates are freaking awesome and I will back another pair if they drop them again. The Black Loomstates are great as well. I think Gustin did a great job on both the Loomstates. Now I definitely agree with you on the The Beast. Knowing what I know now, I will definitely go elsewhere for heavier denim but honestly I don't think Gustin is going to try anymore campaigns over 18 oz. Ok Regret is a bit harsh except for the BEAST. I thought I'd wear those to the end of time, now im praying for the end of time (or at least the end of the day But its a toss up on the Zim's and Loomies (don't get me wrong both in my top 3 pairs). But what did I pay, $300. Could I have bought one pair of IH (or similar). Just has me thinking. Funny you bring this up. I just washed my Heavyweights for the first time after around 6 months. Shoveling, this that, trying to beat them to all to hell. I see electric blue fades starting to come through so of course I was like "hey, a wash will help soften these things up even more!" Not so much. They fought back. For $300 and going over 18oz again, I think I will be going with another brand. Still love these and will continue to work with them however they are being put away once it gets above 40 degrees. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 11:39:21 GMT -6
With all the new vendors and Rakuten, Gustin (and N&F) is no difference than a pair of Gap jeans to me right now. I know it's just your opinion and all, but that is a patently ridiculous statement. - Gap currently offers exactly one raw selvedge jean. It's imported and costs $108.
- Gustin, at this particular moment, has four raw selvedge jeans up in the store. They are made in the US and are priced at $80-109. Of course, you only have to wait 2-3 days before another option or two will show up. Most will be under $125. Some might be up around $150-200, but those are the fabrics you can't find elsewhere...certainly not at that price, and possibly not at all, period.
- N&F probably has dozens of raw selvedge jeans available at any one time. They are made in Canada and tend to be priced in the $150-200 range unless you catch a pair on sale.
If you don't see the difference between those three, then you're simply unwilling to see what is there. I have a brand new selvedge Gap jeans in my closet that I bought about 4-5 years ago. When I put it next to my LVC, RRL, Lee and Ciano, I can tell right away that those four brands have much significant better details than the Gap. However, when I put my Gap jeans next to my Gustin and N&F, it just blend in totally perfectly. Frankly, the fit of my Gaps and N&F are more taper and I preferred them over my G's a lot more for my style. I truly don't need a pair of basic looking jeans that uses some different fabric that 99.99% of the population will think it is a pair of mall brand jeans from Gaps or AE or Abercrombie. I want a pair of nicely constructed jeans with heritage details inside and out that will get me excited by just looking at those details. I want the jeans to remind me the origin of the US tradition and the history behind the jeans culture. I think many of those Japanese brands are trying to replicate that feeling and I think members here are start growing to appreciated it. |
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Post by seth on Feb 25, 2015 13:18:42 GMT -6
Seems that most here would agree that Gustin (LD,etc) are GateWay denims. It is a journey of growth when people realizes quality over quantity. Yes. It's very interesting to me to watch the transition from G and LD to more IH interest for a lot of people - especially those interested in heavier weights. It's a gateway as you move up the ladder. I was excited for Gustin to enter the 23 and 26 oz realm but they seemed to back out of that market space after production issues with the beast. So G never really competed with IH in the 21 + oz realm. |
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Post by Old26 on Feb 25, 2015 13:24:26 GMT -6
It is a journey of growth when people realizes quality over quantity. Yes. It's very interesting to me to watch the transition from G and LD to more IH interest for a lot of people - especially those interested in heavier weights. It's a gateway as you move up the ladder. I was excited for Gustin to enter the 23 and 26 oz realm but they seemed to back out of that market space after production issues with the beast. So G never really competed with IH in the 21 + oz realm. Gustin broke hardware making them as well. I think it's best left to those who want to make and can make it without drama. I've tried on a lot of IH jeans, and they're nice. But honestly, I would not spend over $200 on a pair, and I honestly found my sweet-spot to be the 18oz range. Not saying heavier is out, but I'm not as infatuated with super duper heavy as I once was... |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 13:25:31 GMT -6
I'd probably go Okayama Stds, GreyxBlacks, and Raw Umbers if I had to buy three for my first purchases around three hund. As much as I like my Black2s, I don't ever find myself reaching for them, and I probably wouldn't put them in my top five. I reach for my Naturals more often than the Black2s. But right now, I'd probably go for either the Japan Indigo Silks or Cashmeres, and a pair of Summer Blues. Or maybe Japan Indigo Silks/Cashmeres + an extra pair of Grey Silks.
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Post by stinky on Feb 25, 2015 13:28:01 GMT -6
I'd probably go Okayama Stds, GreyxBlacks, and Raw Umbers if I had to buy three for my first purchases around three hund. As much as I like my Black2s, I don't ever find myself reaching for them, and I probably wouldn't put them in my top five. I reach for my Naturals more often than the Black2s. But right now, I'd probably go for either the Japan Indigo Silks or Cashmeres, and a pair of Summer Blues. Or maybe Japan Indigo Silks/Cashmeres + an extra pair of Grey Silks. no oxbloods? |
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Post by seth on Feb 25, 2015 13:34:54 GMT -6
I forgot to answer the $300 question. I'd get a pair of IH-666S-19L off Rakuten for about $215 and a custom made belt for about $75.
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Post by Mattbert on Feb 25, 2015 14:14:48 GMT -6
I know it's just your opinion and all, but that is a patently ridiculous statement. - Gap currently offers exactly one raw selvedge jean. It's imported and costs $108.
- Gustin, at this particular moment, has four raw selvedge jeans up in the store. They are made in the US and are priced at $80-109. Of course, you only have to wait 2-3 days before another option or two will show up. Most will be under $125. Some might be up around $150-200, but those are the fabrics you can't find elsewhere...certainly not at that price, and possibly not at all, period.
- N&F probably has dozens of raw selvedge jeans available at any one time. They are made in Canada and tend to be priced in the $150-200 range unless you catch a pair on sale.
If you don't see the difference between those three, then you're simply unwilling to see what is there. I have a brand new selvedge Gap jeans in my closet that I bought about 4-5 years ago. When I put it next to my LVC, RRL, Lee and Ciano, I can tell right away that those four brands have much significant better details than the Gap. However, when I put my Gap jeans next to my Gustin and N&F, it just blend in totally perfectly. Frankly, the fit of my Gaps and N&F are more taper and I preferred them over my G's a lot more for my style. I truly don't need a pair of basic looking jeans that uses some different fabric that 99.99% of the population will think it is a pair of mall brand jeans from Gaps or AE or Abercrombie. I want a pair of nicely constructed jeans with heritage details inside and out that will get me excited by just looking at those details. I want the jeans to remind me the origin of the US tradition and the history behind the jeans culture. I think many of those Japanese brands are trying to replicate that feeling and I think members here are start growing to appreciated it. Well, okay. A couple things... If you're talking about "basic looking jeans", Gustin pretty much always has at least one pretty standard indigo denim up for around $80-90. So, roughly $20-30 cheaper than Gap and made in the US instead of overseas. If the details on a pair of basic Gustin indigo jeans are, as you say, indistinguishable from a pair of Gaps that are more expensive on top of being imported, that would seem to be a pretty clear win for the Gustins, correct? If the Gustin fit is not a good match for you, that's another issue entirely and has nothing to do with the inherent quality of the product; it's purely body type and/or personal preference. If you personally don't need a pair of basic indigo jeans, that also has nothing to do with the relative merits of Gustin versus the Gap. And of course, it's complete nonsense to imply that Gustin only produces basic looking jeans. Because if you're talking about any of the more boutique/unusual denims that Gustin puts out, then they clearly blow Gap/AE/A&F out of the water. You aren't going to find a NIxP or an 18-oz Zim or a hemp or a loomie or a herringbone at the damn mall. And I can't think of any detail that would distinguish a pair of jeans from a mall brand more than the denim the jeans are made from. But that's apples to oranges and not fair to Gustin or the mall brands, so it doesn't make much sense to compare them that way. Now, if it's true that 99.99% of the population won't notice the difference between a pair of basic indigo Gustins--let's say the Heavy Americans or the Blue 14 that's up there right now--and a pair of mall brand jeans, then I'll bet you 99.98% won't notice the difference between a pair of "nicely-constructed jeans with heritage details inside and out" and those same mall brand jeans. I agree that, compared to my Gustins, the superior quality and attention to detail in the construction of my Cianos is easily noticeable...by me...when I'm looking at them up close or laid side-by-side on a table. Once I'm wearing them, though, would anyone besides a particularly eagle-eyed denimhead notice any difference? Not a chance. Then we get into whether we're looking for certain details in a pair of jeans because we think they are cool or because we think other people will think they are cool. I don't believe anyone is 100% in one camp or the other, but I'm definitely more on the side that says buy what you like, not what you think will endow you with some magical status in the eyes of others. To pick an extreme example, nobody is going to look at my Zims and love them as much as I do because the looks aren't what makes them amazing. It's how they feel, and how they make me feel, that makes them amazing. Similarly, the thing that makes my Cianos an outstanding pair of jeans is the tailored finish, and ain't nobody but me appreciating that feature when I'm wearing them. The penny fly is way cool too, but if I'm wearing a belt and/or an untucked shirt...again, a detail that's never going to be noticed by anyone else. Plus it's more of a gimmick (a way cool gimmick that I really like, but a gimmick nonetheless) as opposed to a "heritage detail" anyway. Hell, most of the things that get marketed as heritage details are gimmicks too. If you could hop in a time machine and go back to 1880s San Francisco, what details would the jeans have that you'd want on your pair today? Hand-hammered rivets, maybe a particular stitching pattern on the pockets? Sure. Extremely high rise and extremely loose-fitting legs? Probably not. Suspender buttons and/or a cinching strap in the back? A matter of taste, but arguably getting a little bit costume-y for us white collar brahs. What else is there? What other heritage details am I missing out on by wearing a pair of Gustins instead of LVC or RRL? Jeez, more than a couple things I guess. Apparently this irritated me more than I thought. |
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