|
Post by matt on Mar 20, 2015 15:38:46 GMT -6
I'm positive many people have, and that is just another one of their excuses to delay. To be honest, their response left me even more frustrated and is the nail in the coffin for my involvement with them. I have no proof that nobody else has cancelled past the 120 day mark but I find it hard to believe. This all feels very dubious to me. Well, let's see if they give me the same 120 remark since my order I attempted to cancel was November 2. And the merchant vendor probably doesn't know what to do with these requests since most businesses have their orders fulfilled within 120 days.
|
|
|
Post by variable on Mar 20, 2015 16:18:32 GMT -6
Interesting. In response to my request for cancellation (order in the 700s), they're asking me to reconsider as it's in production. My status still says Awaiting Fulfilment, though. Either I've miraculously jumped over 400 places and 4 months in the queue or they don't want to hand back cash. If I have jumped 400 places, there will be 400 unhappy customers with pitchforks and burning torches on the rampage. None of this makes me feel good. I got the same response. My order was #1346 (Nov 29); I confirmed that I wanted to cancel.
|
|
|
Post by wdw on Mar 20, 2015 16:27:59 GMT -6
Interesting. In response to my request for cancellation (order in the 700s), they're asking me to reconsider as it's in production. My status still says Awaiting Fulfilment, though. Either I've miraculously jumped over 400 places and 4 months in the queue or they don't want to hand back cash. If I have jumped 400 places, there will be 400 unhappy customers with pitchforks and burning torches on the rampage. None of this makes me feel good. I got the same response. My order was #1346 (Nov 29); I confirmed that I wanted to cancel. Yeah, more lies. I've just emailed saying I want the refund no later than next Friday, if that's what they claim the only day is. This just gets worse by the day.
|
|
|
Post by drstrange on Mar 20, 2015 17:27:54 GMT -6
back to the fun .... this is what I found on YELP
a customer complaining on March 18, 2015
Run! Don't walk to another denim company because LD&Co. will take your money, then give you completely unrealistic production times. I placed on order on Nov 3rd (order number in low 300's) and I still haven't seen it. But LD sends me these "update" emails saying "your items are at the cutting table" or "your items are now at the sewing table". Uhh, that was months ago and none of the emails actually include the order number so you have no idea what they're actually working on.
I seriously wouldn't mind an 8-10 week wait, which is what they originally estimated. But right now it's sitting at about 18 weeks and I have nothing to show for they money they collected back in November. The sad thing is this seems to be par for the course for this company right now. If you search around different message boards you'll find much of the same story.
Time to change the name from LD&Co to BS&Co.
and here is a reply from LD officials:
Comment from Roman A. of Lawless Denim & Co Business Owner 3/18/2015 Hi D.L., thank you for your kind review. It is important to note that at the time you placed your order, we had JUST launched our website. You have been a customer of LD&Co. just as long as LD&Co has been online! How fantastic it was for you to give your support to a brand you knew nothing about.
And, as you already are aware, our unique business model gives us something that sets us apart from other brands, allowing you to customize not only your fabric but select your thread color, hardware detail, pocket liner etc, all while being made, right here, by artists who are borderline OCD about the quality products they produce, who does that?!
Yeah, I mean, we COULD outsource our production to one of the FIVE denim manufacturers on the west coast that every other denim brand you pay $150-$400 a pair for does but then we lose that quality control and YOU as the consumer lose the options.
Now, its understandable that you're probably not familiar with what "custom" means as a consumer because, up until this point, you've never had that option given to you. We get it. That's why we're here, to give you that option.
As always, if you have a concern you can call us (we have voicemail too). And, as always, if you aren't willing to wait for quality, we're not trying to take your money and run. Just ask for a refund, it's just that simple.
Quality takes time man, and with our business model you not only receive your jeans at wholesale pricing but you are purchasing them DIRECT from a manufacturer.
It can take up to a year to get a Ferrari, but hey, people will wait that long. Why? Because Ferrari's are awesome! We are the Ferrari of denim and we are worth the wait.
XXXXX the Ferrari of Denim ... at least the man has a healthy self-esteem ....
|
|
|
Post by jeffrx on Mar 20, 2015 17:38:07 GMT -6
I think I just gagged a little....
|
|
|
Post by jbreitenbucher on Mar 20, 2015 17:39:34 GMT -6
back to the fun .... this is what I found on YELP a customer complaining on March 18, 2015 Run! Don't walk to another denim company because LD&Co. will take your money, then give you completely unrealistic production times. I placed on order on Nov 3rd (order number in low 300's) and I still haven't seen it. But LD sends me these "update" emails saying "your items are at the cutting table" or "your items are now at the sewing table". Uhh, that was months ago and none of the emails actually include the order number so you have no idea what they're actually working on. I seriously wouldn't mind an 8-10 week wait, which is what they originally estimated. But right now it's sitting at about 18 weeks and I have nothing to show for they money they collected back in November. The sad thing is this seems to be par for the course for this company right now. If you search around different message boards you'll find much of the same story. Time to change the name from LD&Co to BS&Co. and here is a reply from LD officials: Comment from Roman A. of Lawless Denim & Co Business Owner 3/18/2015 Hi D.L., thank you for your kind review. It is important to note that at the time you placed your order, we had JUST launched our website. You have been a customer of LD&Co. just as long as LD&Co has been online! How fantastic it was for you to give your support to a brand you knew nothing about. And, as you already are aware, our unique business model gives us something that sets us apart from other brands, allowing you to customize not only your fabric but select your thread color, hardware detail, pocket liner etc, all while being made, right here, by artists who are borderline OCD about the quality products they produce, who does that?! Yeah, I mean, we COULD outsource our production to one of the FIVE denim manufacturers on the west coast that every other denim brand you pay $150-$400 a pair for does but then we lose that quality control and YOU as the consumer lose the options. Now, its understandable that you're probably not familiar with what "custom" means as a consumer because, up until this point, you've never had that option given to you. We get it. That's why we're here, to give you that option. As always, if you have a concern you can call us (we have voicemail too). And, as always, if you aren't willing to wait for quality, we're not trying to take your money and run. Just ask for a refund, it's just that simple. Quality takes time man, and with our business model you not only receive your jeans at wholesale pricing but you are purchasing them DIRECT from a manufacturer. It can take up to a year to get a Ferrari, but hey, people will wait that long. Why? Because Ferrari's are awesome! We are the Ferrari of denim and we are worth the wait. XXXXX the Ferrari of Denim ... at least the man has a healthy self-esteem .... Maybe I'd buy it if we didn't have so many examples of people getting the incorrect size, incorrect denim, incorrect details, etc. I'd be shocked if Ferrari would let something out of the shop with any error. I'm still in for a pair of the green over dyed Cone denim jeans (order 700 something) and will remain in. It could be worse for some of you. I did some work for them and took merchandise in trade, but have no order number for these items and hence no way to track them. I'm hoping to get "paid" no later than nine months after completing the work.
|
|
|
Post by mercuryman76 on Mar 20, 2015 17:51:54 GMT -6
back to the fun .... this is what I found on YELP a customer complaining on March 18, 2015 Run! Don't walk to another denim company because LD&Co. will take your money, then give you completely unrealistic production times. I placed on order on Nov 3rd (order number in low 300's) and I still haven't seen it. But LD sends me these "update" emails saying "your items are at the cutting table" or "your items are now at the sewing table". Uhh, that was months ago and none of the emails actually include the order number so you have no idea what they're actually working on. I seriously wouldn't mind an 8-10 week wait, which is what they originally estimated. But right now it's sitting at about 18 weeks and I have nothing to show for they money they collected back in November. The sad thing is this seems to be par for the course for this company right now. If you search around different message boards you'll find much of the same story. Time to change the name from LD&Co to BS&Co. and here is a reply from LD officials: Comment from Roman A. of Lawless Denim & Co Business Owner 3/18/2015 Hi D.L., thank you for your kind review. It is important to note that at the time you placed your order, we had JUST launched our website. You have been a customer of LD&Co. just as long as LD&Co has been online! How fantastic it was for you to give your support to a brand you knew nothing about. And, as you already are aware, our unique business model gives us something that sets us apart from other brands, allowing you to customize not only your fabric but select your thread color, hardware detail, pocket liner etc, all while being made, right here, by artists who are borderline OCD about the quality products they produce, who does that?! Yeah, I mean, we COULD outsource our production to one of the FIVE denim manufacturers on the west coast that every other denim brand you pay $150-$400 a pair for does but then we lose that quality control and YOU as the consumer lose the options. Now, its understandable that you're probably not familiar with what "custom" means as a consumer because, up until this point, you've never had that option given to you. We get it. That's why we're here, to give you that option. As always, if you have a concern you can call us (we have voicemail too). And, as always, if you aren't willing to wait for quality, we're not trying to take your money and run. Just ask for a refund, it's just that simple. Quality takes time man, and with our business model you not only receive your jeans at wholesale pricing but you are purchasing them DIRECT from a manufacturer. It can take up to a year to get a Ferrari, but hey, people will wait that long. Why? Because Ferrari's are awesome! We are the Ferrari of denim and we are worth the wait. XXXXX the Ferrari of Denim ... at least the man has a healthy self-esteem .... I'll own up to this because that was my yelp review that I posted the other day. Funny thing is, I got a call from Kahla (or whatever her name is) that same day because out of the 5 outstanding orders I placed I cancelled one of them last week. Long story short, they refunded me for the wrong order number and I'd called last week to make sure they didn't cancel the refunded order because I still wanted it (it was the 17oz Japan heavy slub denim) but it turns out that she lets me know that that particular material was now on backorder from the supplier. Not exactly sure how it could be on backorder since when you place an order there's essentially a countdown that tells you how many units they have available for purchase, but whatever. So rather than wait forever for that order to process (order placed Nov 5th and order number mid 800's) I just said forget it and asks to cancel it as well. I did get the "well I have to look into it since it's been 120 days" response and I imagine I'll have to make several calls to make sure the refund gets processed. BTW, she did also mention that she would send all of my remaining orders into production right away. Umm, okay, I guess that means maybe I'll see some of them by the end of the year. I don't mean to be an ass because I'm all for American production and jobs, but customer service is what could have set them apart and where they really seem to have failed.
|
|
|
Post by ickes on Mar 20, 2015 18:07:34 GMT -6
Fact: I have received 8 items from Lawless at this point. All 8 items that I have received should not have made it passed any competent QC person or persons. All 8 items were not within spec tolerances of the sizes I had ordered, 1 shirt was sewn up with the wrong fabric, and one other shirt was sewn up with the wrong buttons and thread.
Lawless did communicate to me before delivery of my shirts that one was sewn up with the wrong fabric and they offered to make me a new one with the correct fabric, I declined and accepted the shirt in the wrong fabric. They are also fixing three of my shirts.
Unless Ferraris quality control has drastically declined, I don't agree with the statement that Lawless is the Ferrari of denim.
|
|
|
Post by drstrange on Mar 20, 2015 18:08:36 GMT -6
mercuryman76: sorry for not asking your permission to reproduce, but it was the reply which in my view is absolutely epic .... I've seen a lot of crap when people are trying to put lipstick on the pig, but this guy is in many ways unmatched ..... if the denim business should not succeed, guess he could tske up a position as a court jester .....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2015 18:17:05 GMT -6
Comment from Roman A. of Lawless Denim & Co Business Owner 3/18/2015 Hi D.L., thank you for your kind review. It is important to note that at the time you placed your order, we had JUST launched our website. You have been a customer of LD&Co. just as long as LD&Co has been online! How fantastic it was for you to give your support to a brand you knew nothing about. And, as you already are aware, our unique business model gives us something that sets us apart from other brands, allowing you to customize not only your fabric but select your thread color, hardware detail, pocket liner etc, all while being made, right here, by artists who are borderline OCD about the quality products they produce, who does that?! Yeah, I mean, we COULD outsource our production to one of the FIVE denim manufacturers on the west coast that every other denim brand you pay $150-$400 a pair for does but then we lose that quality control and YOU as the consumer lose the options. Now, its understandable that you're probably not familiar with what "custom" means as a consumer because, up until this point, you've never had that option given to you. We get it. That's why we're here, to give you that option. As always, if you have a concern you can call us (we have voicemail too). And, as always, if you aren't willing to wait for quality, we're not trying to take your money and run. Just ask for a refund, it's just that simple.Quality takes time man, and with our business model you not only receive your jeans at wholesale pricing but you are purchasing them DIRECT from a manufacturer. It can take up to a year to get a Ferrari, but hey, people will wait that long. Why? Because Ferrari's are awesome! We are the Ferrari of denim and we are worth the wait.XXXXX the Ferrari of Denim ... at least the man has a healthy self-esteem .... Would delusional be underselling what this guy is lmao..
|
|
|
Post by drstrange on Mar 20, 2015 18:20:25 GMT -6
Unless Ferraris quality control has drastically declined, I don't agree with the statement that Lawless is the Ferrari of denim. Ferraris are a.) way out of my wallet and b.) being pure "race-machines" not so much my cup of tea ..... For sure, I've never heard of any quality issues at Ferrari ... of course there will be the one in a hundred (or one in a thousand) car which for whatever reason escaped QC, however I suppose the CS at Ferrari will deal with that more than obliging, which will be another reason why a non-client like me has never heard anything negative about the brand ... anyway the real laugh for me is the statement, "if it takes Ferrari one year to built a car, why couldn't Lawless take one to sew a pair of jeans ........."
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2015 18:24:50 GMT -6
that response from LD is insane........
1. the customers did not randomly make up an expected production window. that window was communicated by LD themselves. it's completely unfair to then turn back on the customer and say 'hey...if you're not willing to wait that's your problem'
2. the custom options have been offered, removed, and offered again...all the while customers have received incorrect fabric, incorrect sizing, and incorrect construction options...is their OCD specific to getting things wrong? this doesn't even touch upon the fact that so many people aren't even able to still get the fabrics they originally ordered months and months ago because they're damaged or simply no longer available.
3. 'just ask for a refund...it's that simple?!?' how many have had to wait for approval for a refund, or been told that they need to jump through a few hoops for orders >120 days (which is pretty much right at that first week of november...the point where everyone is contemplating a refund)
|
|
|
Post by hotchile on Mar 20, 2015 18:26:27 GMT -6
A buddy of mine (I talked him into ordering, his order was in the mid-200s) tried cancelling two weeks ago and got no reply other than the standard "your order is in sewing" everyone else gets when cancelling. He followed up with another email, and finally called today to get the same "120 days" line everyone else is. I feel bad because while I can take a $47.50 loss, my buddy can't. He figured he'd get a good pair of jeans and save money in the long run. So while Roman talks about American jobs and American pride, my buddy is out $47.50 he earned working a real American job for something he has waited 18 some-odd weeks for that was promised to be 8-10 weeks. The money LD&Co is sitting on, not delivering products, making BS excuses for, and blaming the customer for not understanding 'custom', is real money, paid by real Americans (and others), with real American jobs and real American families. Yeah, I'm angry.
And before you complain that I don't understand the business model, I ordered a turntable that was being made under a similar model. Was quoted 5 weeks of production time. At week four I got a personal note, with my order number, saying because of weather delays production was two weeks behind schedule and to please accept their humble apologies, "here's $10 off", and if there is any problem or second thoughts please simply click an attached link to cancel the order, full refund, no questions asked. I stuck with it because of the communication and guess what - the manufacturer busted their hump and got my turntable to me in...drum roll...5 weeks. And I still got the coupon code and a nice note thanking me for my understanding.
|
|
|
Post by Winterland on Mar 20, 2015 18:42:46 GMT -6
Please let's try to remain gentleman. Roman and Lawless have posted here in the past and we have asked Roman to come on and give us some clarity on the situation. We want vendors to come on our forum and interact. As we know there are members who are frustrated with Lawless but remember there are members who have received items they are very happy with.
Kickstarter models are going to have some snafus. Many of us have had frustration with more than one vendor. Hopefully the forum can be used in positive way to engage with vendors and help us and them at the same time.
Thanks, your forum Mods
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2015 18:51:39 GMT -6
hotchile you're not in the wrong to be angry. we're not talking about a slight timeline slippage. we're talking more than double the expected timeframe...if you got something today. but, who knows when we might receive our items. i was told on 2/4 by Dirty_Denim that one of my orders (222) was 'already' being worked on. then again 2 weeks ago was told by phone that several items were near completion and should be shipping by the end of that week, and the others would be pushed into production immediately. there has been months of telling customers anything and everything to appease them...including the promise of quick turn around times when orders arrive incorrect. it's gotten beyond the point of nonsense.
|
|
|
Post by quick on Mar 20, 2015 18:57:22 GMT -6
A buddy of mine (I talked him into ordering, his order was in the mid-200s) tried cancelling two weeks ago and got no reply other than the standard "your order is in sewing" everyone else gets when cancelling. He followed up with another email, and finally called today to get the same "120 days" line everyone else is. I feel bad because while I can take a $47.50 loss, my buddy can't. He figured he'd get a good pair of jeans and save money in the long run. So while Roman talks about American jobs and American pride, my buddy is out $47.50 he earned working a real American job for something he has waited 18 some-odd weeks for that was promised to be 8-10 weeks. The money LD&Co is sitting on, not delivering products, making BS excuses for, and blaming the customer for not understanding 'custom', is real money, paid by real Americans (and others), with real American jobs and real American families. Yeah, I'm angry.
And before you complain that I don't understand the business model, I ordered a turntable that was being made under a similar model. Was quoted 5 weeks of production time. At week four I got a personal note, with my order number, saying because of weather delays production was two weeks behind schedule and to please accept their humble apologies, "here's $10 off", and if there is any problem or second thoughts please simply click an attached link to cancel the order, full refund, no questions asked. I stuck with it because of the communication and guess what - the manufacturer busted their hump and got my turntable to me in...drum roll...5 weeks. And I still got the coupon code and a nice note thanking me for my understanding.
I can't agree more with what you're saying. Roman has repeated ad nauseam about supporting american jobs, quality, its worth the wait etc. While I think it's safe to say most of us care about this, it doesn't excuse LD from silent and this late. LD has to be perfect if they are going to be this late, and they arent even that. There have been reports of wrong fabrics, substitutions, wrong liners, upside down patches... I realize that most of us probably got big discounts on our potential clothing from LD, there is no excuse for mistakes in cutting/sewing/fabric now. In addition to being perfect, LD&co should be giving out stuff to make up for the wait times... refunds/partial refunds/store credit/free shit. Seriously, instead of taking the time to respond to one guy on yelp for truth, Roman should be helping in production with all his free time. If he wants to respond to people, give us some facts about what's going on, send out a mass email, let us know what's happening. the point is, quality and supporting american jobs doesn't mean a thing if you quoted 8-10 weeks to begin with; that's a LD problem. he makes it sound like the consequence for buying american is the wait time.
|
|
|
Post by Old26 on Mar 20, 2015 19:00:53 GMT -6
Please let's try to remain gentleman. Roman and Lawless have posted here in the past and we have asked Roman to come on and give us some clarity on the situation. We want vendors to come on our forum and interact. As we know there are members who are frustrated with Lawless but remember there are members who have received items they are very happy with. Kickstarter models are going to have some snafus. Many of us have had frustration with more than one vendor. Hopefully the forum can be used in positive way to engage with vendors and help us and them at the same time. Thanks, your forum Mods What we're saying here is that Roman will possibly be posting here. Lots of pissed off folks here. I'm going to listen with an open mind. So, bottom line is that the joint is open to discussions, but please don't embarrass us or yourselves as those types of posts will be deleted. Either post constructively or just read (or ignore) please. I'm on record as an unhappy fella of late. But please let's do this in a manner that makes it fun and useful to be here.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2015 19:05:41 GMT -6
a. LD isn't a kickstarter/crowdsourced business model...rather made to order. the only parallel is they take your money up front b. these aren't snafus, telling customers that they should just be willing to wait it out and that they don't 'understand' is arrogant and insulting b. i don't want extra discounts or 'stuff'...i'd settle for honest communication from the company and ultimately the products as i ordered them...and each day/week/month that goes by the less likely that seems
|
|
|
Post by Old26 on Mar 20, 2015 19:15:50 GMT -6
Giving out free stuff and/or discounts isn't the answer here. Only thing that will (and would have) helped is just plain, goddamn honest "this is what's up". I'd be happy.
I think most of us saw the trains coming off of the tracks after a couple big sales, then all the custom stuff, followed by new jackets, new this, new that. Wayyyyyyy too much to bite off before shiz was under control.
Again, please, whether "we" like or believe anything that might get posted here, let's just hear them out.
|
|
|
Post by jray on Mar 20, 2015 19:18:23 GMT -6
Old26 - has someone from here been in discussion with Roman to come on here and have a chat?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2015 19:33:08 GMT -6
A straightforward and honest periodic assessment (Bi-weekly, or so) would be good enough for me, as a customer. I don't care how long it takes, I just want to KNOW how long it will take.
But, seriously... As I step back and look at this forum, I can see that there is a group of 20-30 people here who were probably a big part of this whole production back log. When the Lawless gates opened, people jumped in UNMERCIFULLY, over-customising every item with any and every option available, and also getting any and every item custom tailored. Yes, it was advertised to the public as such being totally possible, but we all also knew their actual production capabilities and workforce numbers at that time.
Then, to top off all of that..... After looking the gift horse in the mouth, many people slapped, punches and whipped it, figuratively speaking... After it was well explained that any custom tailored garments had to be designed specifically to the right proportions before being able to start the cut/sew process, and that there was only one guy who was doing the templates for these garments, many people went back and forth several times for several weeks trying to "dial in" on what they thought would be their perfect fit, resulting in the designer have to designer, re-design and RE-re-design templates.....
I mean really, the audacity! (No sarcasm).
The man welcomed us in to his humble home, and told us to makes ourselves comfortable... And immediately people are in their skivvies sitting in his favorite recliner, asking his wife to bring them a freaking beer! "But, you told me to make myself at home! I don't understand the issue.....".
Many people here, are what I would consider as " the customers I wouldn't want to have", and if I were the owner of LD&Co., I would have politely and quietly sent you a refund and an email telling you that we are not the company for you far before this point, and far before you were to even think of requesting it on your own.
*Hungover, angry rant = completed
|
|
|
Post by Old26 on Mar 20, 2015 19:47:40 GMT -6
Old26 - has someone from here been in discussion with Roman to come on here and have a chat? An invitation has been offered up. I have mixed feelings but I also want to be fair. More than any feeling in my quiver, I feel disappointment.
|
|
fr0d
New Member
Posts: 19
|
Post by fr0d on Mar 20, 2015 19:55:25 GMT -6
It gets better though.
Requested a refund on the 12th of March, then again on the 16th (after being told but wait, they just need a buttonhole!), and then again on the 19th.
Today I get a message saying they can't do that, the jeans have already been shipped.
This started off ridiculous, but its beyond a joke now.
I'm an international order, should I get have a shipping notice?
|
|
|
Post by jray on Mar 20, 2015 19:55:48 GMT -6
Old 26 - I feel the same way
|
|
|
Post by roman on Mar 20, 2015 20:23:34 GMT -6
How's it going everyone?
|
|